#860 Internet of Things (IoT)

Brain Food for Pioneering Spirits: What is actually behind the Internet of Things, and what does it mean for our everyday lives? In Room #860 of the Deep Talk Club, under our overarching theme “Pioneering Spirit with brAIn,” the group digs into smart devices from alarm-sensor pajamas to stress-tracking clothing to medical apps, the data-privacy trade-offs behind them, and what it actually takes to engineer an IoT product from prototype to market. Listen in on the examples that came up and the perspectives that emerged in dialogue…

Note: This session was recorded live in German as part of the Deep Talk Club, so the video above is German-language audio only. What follows is an English translation of the conversation, lightly edited for readability — the back-and-forth between the moderator and participants is preserved, but the original timestamps and speaker names have been left out.

A wonderful good morning to you. Today we continue with the topic of the Internet of Things, IoT, because it comes from the English “Internet of Things.” Before we dive deeper into it, I’d like to briefly mention that you’re of course warmly invited to join us again today and enter into an exchange on this topic, so we can gather different perspectives and contributions, thoughts, and so on, and shape this reflection space together toward gaining insight. And with that, a quick reminder that the room is again being recorded the whole time today, and anyone who joins later automatically agrees to that. And we have three small room rules: a profile photo where you’re clearly recognizable, first and last name, and at least one sentence in your bio. And anyone who doesn’t want that for whatever reason, wants to stay anonymous or similar, has the option to use the chat instead. So, the Internet of Things is the topic we want to talk about today, and accordingly I’ve brought along a few aspects already to give a few impulses, and then we can gladly look together at where you’d like to pick things up too. First, what’s actually behind this term IoT, and what possibilities for networking and automation does it create in everyday life? Internet of Things is, as I said, derived from the English “Internet of Things,” hence the abbreviation, which also works one-to-one in German as IoT, or I-O-T. What is it actually, and how does the whole thing work? Let me give a few impulses on that — I already covered this in our new Knowledge Base, which you can find on my website, yaseminyazan.com, so I’ve taken that over here and will briefly read you the introduction. Increasingly, it’s possible to connect devices to the internet and let them communicate with people and other objects. For example, it’s possible for a washing machine with internet access to switch itself on when electricity is cheapest, or to inform the user via an app when the laundry can be hung up. Another example is the smart home, where it’s possible for the front door to lock itself automatically when the occupants leave the house. To make this possible, various technologies such as RFID, Radio Frequency Identification, are used. This involves a small chip built into the device that gives devices their own identity, memory, and the ability to communicate with other devices and receive data, so that they can make their own decisions within a predefined framework. That’s why devices with this technology are called “smart devices.” With the increasing networking of devices over the internet, a new technological infrastructure emerges, also known as the Internet of Things, or IoT for short. As a result, you could say that IoT increasingly connects the real world with the virtual world, with the goal of making life safer, easier, and more economical. Especially with the term “safer,” of course, we can look at that from different perspectives — there are certainly uncertainties that arise from this too. But basically, I think the idea behind it is fairly clear.

There are countless examples here — maybe you have some you’d like to bring in too, I’ve brought along a few more as well. For instance, reordering coffee or other groceries before they even run out, where the device essentially passes along the information and can place orders accordingly, provided that’s what you want. Or something like a lawnmower that can decide, based on weather conditions and lawn moisture, when the most appropriate time is to actually mow the lawn. Things like electric shutters that communicate with Greenwich time and automatically align themselves with sunrise and sunset when deciding when the shutter goes up or down. Cameras that can also be switched on and off remotely — apps are often involved in this context too. The car that automatically locks its doors when the owner is no longer nearby, or gives a notification if, say, a door isn’t properly closed. I think I mentioned once that this actually happened to us — a warning came in because the passenger who’d been riding with us had left the door open too far in the parking garage. Not just a small gap, because our car closes that automatically, but if it’s a bigger gap and you don’t notice and walk away from the car, then a notification comes through the app. In my case, I didn’t even notice via the app — my husband saw that it was still open and called me about it. And of course, all of this requires the corresponding data to first be collected, or rather not just collected but also continuously available, and repeatedly updated — so a certain synchronization of the data happens in the background over time, at a certain frequency, automatically, so that the latest information is always available. And of course that has pros and cons too. On the one hand, data is being collected here, and you could say, well, now people know exactly when I do what and so on. On the other hand, it makes our lives easier in a lot of places. And one more note on IoT — many of the examples I’ve listed are often examples running with exactly this technology in the background. But especially with something like the car, or things away from the car, that doesn’t necessarily have to be IoT — depending on the vehicle, other technologies might also be active in the background. So there are differences here too, and we often don’t know exactly which technology is being used in the background for certain things. But fundamentally, I think it’s fairly clear what IoT means, or what possibilities exist, where the fields of application are. And maybe you’re already using various devices today where this comes into play. So I find it really exciting to open up the floor here in the sense of a reflection space, to look together — Internet of Things, which devices do you know? Do you maybe use devices too? How do you assess it? Or also the development that you might still be following from a distance, how that plays out longer-term, where is the whole thing actually heading — to talk about that together with you. And with that, as mentioned at the start, you’re invited again today to join us, to turn this monologue into a dialogue and open up different perspectives on the topic. Just a quick reminder again — the room is recorded the whole time, so anyone who joins automatically agrees to that. And we have three small room rules for anyone joining for the first time today: a profile photo where you’re clearly recognizable, first and last name, and at least one sentence in your bio, simply to make sure these are serious contributions and not sock-puppet trolls. In the interest of fairness, these rules apply equally to everyone, regardless of whether you’re new or have been here a while. And anyone who doesn’t want that for whatever reason is welcome to use the chat to share ideas, thoughts, questions. And with that, I’d like to welcome Marc at my side this morning — a wonderful good morning, dear Marc, what do you say about the topic?

Good morning everyone, great to be back with you all. Well, as a textile specialist, it won’t surprise you that I’m bringing a few examples from my world, the textile world. I picked out four examples where these things are already being used, the Internet of Things. First, as an alarm device — and I think this is really great, this is genuine added value. For children’s clothing, there are special pajamas equipped with vital sensors, and these sensors deliver data on breathing, heartbeat, and movement to the parents’ bedroom. And sudden infant death is a truly terrible thing — and this data runs in real time, and if these sensors detect that something’s off, that breathing has stopped or movement is no longer happening, there’s an immediate alarm. I think that’s a really great added value. Then, of course, there are also gimmicks — there’s a jeans company, I won’t name it, that made yarns you can use to control your mobile device — you can essentially tap the cuff or sleeve to answer calls via headset, or pull up directions. And then there’s an area from sports — this is great, people are really creative — from the yoga world. I don’t do yoga myself, but I can imagine it being helpful — there’s a company that developed special yoga pants, and these pants signal when a pose needs refining. So these are smart pants that tell the user, here you need to adjust, there you need to adjust. That’s probably more of a fun fact. And then there’s a safety aspect too — swimsuits with sensors and yarns built in that tell the user, hey, watch out, my friend, you’ve been in the sun too long, you should get some shade — there are UV sensors integrated in there. Just a few examples from the textile world.

Wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. Nice examples, and that shows just how diverse this is, on the one hand, and on the other hand, what creativity is coming into play here — what’s actually possible. So I find that really exciting, and some of it, as you said, you could dismiss as a fun factor, and other things give us the impression, well, this is actually quite sensible. Even if, at the same time, with things like the alarm device you mentioned, the first impulse might be, well, do I really want sensors like that — but when you look at what it’s used to control, or what it’s specifically deployed for, that it can be lifesaving, then you can probably make peace with it in one place or another. Marc, how would you assess that gut-feeling-wise, emotion-wise?

Ever since I’ve known you, dear Yasemin, my emotional disorder has really, really improved, because I always ask myself, what could this be good for? And I no longer engage with the question of whether I like it or not, because I can’t stop a lot of these processes anyway, and I look more in the direction of, what could this be useful for? And if it’s a fun factor, I don’t have to use it. If it’s a safety factor, I think that’s great. What I don’t like, though I also won’t be able to stop this development, and this is also more or less part of clothing too, are these smart glasses — I didn’t realize how mature the technology already is. There are now smart glasses that cost between 1,600 and 2,500 euros. And if, in the future, when I’m talking with you, dear Yasemin, or with others, it bothers me a bit when people are constantly holding their phone — on the train I can’t do anything about that, I don’t know those people, but in a personal conversation I like to look people in the eye. If, in the future, that gets done with smart glasses, where people don’t pick up their phone anymore but instead read their WhatsApp while talking to me, I don’t know if that would make me happier. But that’s also a development I won’t be able to stop.

Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much, and here it also becomes clear how helpful it is to set emotions aside for a moment and simply engage with these topics and see what kind of variety there actually is. Those were just a few examples I brought in, a few examples you brought in — if we thought about it longer, I’m sure we’d come up with many, many more examples, and maybe more people will join today who want to bring in further examples. I find it really exciting, because of course you can’t keep track of everything, and that’s why this room is well suited to quickly get some insights and a few ideas about what this is used for, or what possibilities actually open up — especially with things like heart rate frequencies and so on. We know these contexts, of course, from the Apple Watch, for example — a lot is happening there too, they advertise, I think in connection with the iPhone, that in the case of accidents, even if you yourself can’t notify anyone anymore, a notification goes out to the appropriate places so that help can be summoned, even if you’re unconscious or something similar. So you can see this really does have some lovely aspects, and fun aspects too. With some of these things, of course, you can decide for yourself whether you want it or not — especially what you just mentioned with sports, yoga, do I really need a smart pant that tells me my pose isn’t quite right, or maybe my neighbor or my yoga instructor does that instead. So you can decide that for yourself to some extent, but in a lot of places we really can use it sensibly and keep making that conscious decision — do I want this or don’t I. We personally already use a few aspects in this smart context ourselves, because it really is helpful in a lot of places and supports us in everyday life. There are a lot of examples of that — we have, for instance, a complete camera system that you can switch on and off via an app, for example. And it happened to us once that we went on vacation and actually forgot to switch the system on. And it’s really helpful there too that you can do that remotely, so the cameras communicate with each other again, exchange information and so on, and if needed send out warnings and notifications and things like that. And so that’s something really nice, for example when you’re on vacation or something like that, to use certain things and simply get a safer feeling from a distance regarding our home that we’ve left behind, so to speak, along with various other possibilities that exist today. You just mentioned children and heart rates and so on — there too, there are various possibilities you can already use in terms of devices, for instance making it so you don’t need a babysitter or something like that when you’re on vacation and the child is sleeping in the room, but instead you get notifications when, say, the child wakes up, becomes restless, or something else, and the parents get informed accordingly, so you can go back to the room to check on the little one. So there are many, many possibilities for how this can be used. Before I switch back to you, to see if you have further thoughts or examples, I’d like to extend the invitation to the others again — how is it for you, do you use this, do you have further fields of application? Or even if you don’t use it, maybe you’ve heard about something you could bring in as an example, for what all of this is used for. Or maybe you have aspects where you’re very skeptical, so we can open up that perspective too. Because, as I mentioned, it also has a lot to do with the fact that the corresponding data has to be collected in the background so that, with the data and the data processing that takes place technologically here, the information, or the results or decisions, can be sent back out. How is that for you — do you look at this rather confidently, or do you have concerns, in inverted commas? So, gladly looking at it from that perspective too, and if anyone else would like to join, very, very welcome, because the more people we have here, and these don’t need to be fully formed thoughts, you know this, it’s a reflection space, it’s not about anyone being an expert in the field, but about looking at this together through this exchange, and through the examples you bring in, new thoughts open up for us too through the impulses that get set, so we can pick things up again in various places. Marc, would you like to add anything?

Yes, I have another example, also from the clothing sector — there are sensors, also built into clothing, that will in the future be able to measure stress levels. A year ago I’d have said, what total nonsense is that, why would you measure a stress level — and I have a little story about that, it’s quite short. I was at the chiropractor, and they did some basic tests, and then they asked me, wanting to be nice, how are you doing. And I said, I’m doing really well, I’m totally relaxed. And then they did a stress level test with me, and it looked really, really bad. And he said, you’re not relaxed. I said, that can’t be right, I’m totally relaxed, I have nothing going on, this isn’t even an appointment, nothing. And then it occurred to me that beforehand I’d had to withdraw cash, because they didn’t accept EC cards, and I don’t like being late, and having to search for an ATM while also trying to be on time for a chiropractor appointment had put my body into stress without me noticing. And if I imagine now having a T-shirt that can permanently measure a stress level under certain situations, then I’d have the opportunity to become more mindful, to figure out for myself in the first place, hey, which situations stress you out? And what I want to say with that is, there are obviously situations, completely normal everyday situations, that I’m not aware of at all, where suddenly there’s a signal, watch out, this seems to be occupying you or stressing you more than you notice, because these processes often run in the subconscious.

Yes, thank you, thank you so much, and that actually brings me to a thought — we’ve had systems like this in the past, up to today, called biofeedback, and they run on exactly this kind of system, so to speak, sharpening awareness of how you react emotionally to certain situations, and then going into mindfulness and learning to calm yourself down, in inverted commas, so emotion regulation at that point. And these biofeedback devices, especially when you look at devices in this area, have historically been quite expensive, in inverted commas — that’s changing now too, and especially when you look at this with IoT and the possibilities that arise — I actually didn’t know at all that the textile industry already has so much going on in this area, so thank you, dear Marc, for bringing in these lovely examples, and when you see what you can use this for, especially things like stress, burnout, and so on, which are everyday things that keep companies very, very busy, and where a lot of money is spent to do various things, to look at absences, especially against the backdrop of skilled-labor shortages and so on, so that health problems don’t come on top of that. And so I think, both on the individual level and from a business perspective, that this really does make sense, to think and look even more intensively in that direction — how can you measure stress levels and emotion regulation, mindfulness and so on. I’m not aware right now whether there are already companies doing this — I could well imagine there being some pioneers who use or offer something like this to their staff, as long as you know something like this exists. With us, we’d probably still discuss whether that’s even legitimate, okay, or whatever, not everything, given all the various regulations that exist in various forms. But in itself I think, that would be a completely different or new approach too, thinking in that direction in companies, and creating offers for employees, quite deliberately, so they can use things like this in everyday life, to better deal with their stress levels, to bring more mindfulness into health factors, and so on. Marc, would you like to say something about that?

Yes, I have another thought — where I might be a bit odd or react oddly is, I already mentioned this with child safety, data gets collected and that data gets transmitted to the phone, and for that data to be transmitted to the phone, the phone needs a certain app. And personally — this is just my personal opinion — I’ve decided for myself that when I buy or use a device like that, I look at which country it comes from. That means, who’s offering it — who offers the end device, and which software am I loading onto my phone? Because my son studied business informatics, and I’m just unsure, without accusing anyone of anything, if this software comes from another country and I have it on my phone, then I don’t know, technically it’s possible, what other data besides movement and stress level might be captured. And that’s a point that’s still on my mind. Maybe at some point there’ll be software for our mobile devices, like a browser, so that when we use this technology, the phone tells me, watch out, there’s something hidden on this phone, so that this app and this additional programming I have to load onto my phone doesn’t cause any damage, doesn’t read out my banking data and so on. So I’m still a bit skeptical there. And the second point I have is about data evaluation — I’m pretty sure, pretty sure, that health insurance providers will use this in the future too. We all have a movement tracker on our phones that measures how much we’ve walked, and so on, and probably, like in the auto sector, health insurers will say, Marc walks this much per day, he moves, or he does sports, and if he does a lot of sports, he might get a different rate from us, a different premium than someone who doesn’t do sports. And there too I have to say, if we voluntarily give out the data, if it’s a voluntary decision, I’ll think about it. Then I can live with it. What’s concerning for me is only when I give out data that I don’t want to give out voluntarily. And that’s why transparency is the key for me, for our own security.

Yes, thank you very much, absolutely understandable. And especially here, ultimately, on the one hand there’s the potential for misuse — those are, I think, quite common concerns that exist. As long as you use systems and apps from, let’s say, well-known or established companies, the risk is probably lower than with, say, some startups you might not really know and don’t know what’s behind them. That’s one thing. The other thing is of course the aspect you just mentioned — a lot of data gets collected, and even if today that data isn’t used for something specific, the question arises, thinking long-term, that tomorrow it could be used for something you might not have wanted, or something like that, and how that plays out. So the corresponding “discomforts” or concerns of the end user are part of this too. On the other hand, you can look at it from various perspectives — if we take the example of social media, we often know that a lot happens with the data, and we really have no real overview, I’d say, of everything that’s done with it. And still, in a lot of places, that doesn’t really stop us, because it’s become such a normality, in inverted commas, that we still use these tools made available to us, in this case platforms, whether that’s Facebook, Instagram, various messenger systems or chat systems like WhatsApp or others, up to LinkedIn, say if I use it professionally or similar. Of course, you could say there are regulations in Europe or Germany that protect us to some extent, in inverted commas. On the other hand, we keep having situations where, for example, data gets hacked — even if there’s protection in place up to a certain limit, so to speak, data still gets hacked, even from these companies, which leads to some things getting out that were never intended to. And it’s not that long ago, recently we even had the situation, I think, with Facebook, where there are now lawyers who’ve set up pages where you can, for example, enter your email address currently, or phone number I think, to check whether your own data was hacked somehow, because you can get that screened relatively quickly there and get a fairly reliable result. And that shows that such incidents do happen, even when there are, let’s say, regulations or similar in place — so we’re not immune to it, in inverted commas. And that’s when it gets really exciting, because yesterday, for example, we talked about blockchain technology, and now, with these possibilities, we can start considering them not in isolation from each other but thinking about what could emerge here, or what’s actually emerging right now in the interplay with these newer technologies when considered together. That means, if you offer, say, services that work with blockchain in the background and so on, depending on which systems you use to process information, to make information accessible again and so on, it could be that additional security aspects come into play that weren’t there before. And that’s really exciting too. So we have one goal with these rooms, today and over the coming days, on the one hand to look at individual technologies, but then also to keep building this bridge and thinking about what emerges when we link, unite, these technologies with each other — what possibilities does that create, also with respect to security and so on. So, definitely worth looking at from various perspectives here too. Would you like to add anything to that, Marc?

No, not to that. What just occurred to me — where I really think it’s great, I always try to look at the positive aspects — is in medicine, when it concerns ourselves. You once put it really well, dear Yasemin — what use is all this development to us, where’s the benefit for me, what can I get out of it, what do I gain from it? And there are now apps used in the medical sense — with these apps we can measure the speed of our fingers, our balance can be measured, the roll of our feet, our arm movement, our tremor. And these apps then also help the doctor recognize, hey, something’s not right here — something’s off with your speech, something’s off with your movement. And then we’d have the option, when we’re at a doctor’s, a doctor we trust, to hand him our phone so he can read it out. And that way you can detect Parkinson’s, for example, at an early stage, and other diseases too.

Yes, thank you, thank you so much, and I think a newsletter went out on Monday too, where there was also a note from the Neuro News section, exactly on this aspect of data in the context of medicine. Let me see if I can quickly pull that up — I can tell you a bit about it for those of you not subscribed to the newsletter. Let me see which one exactly that was — and of course the phone is ringing at the same time, wonderful. Let me try to pull that up again in a moment. So especially in this medical context we do have various possibilities here, so to speak, for how it can be applied or used, and there’s a lot happening there. And interesting, because there’s always this, in inverted commas, “it can’t replace us” or “it can’t be better than a human” discussion, and I find that discussion sometimes a bit misleading, because it’s not really about whether we get replaced or not, but partly about looking at where these systems are actually, in inverted commas, better than humans today. In the newsletter piece I sent out on Monday, the context was artificial intelligence in intensive care medicine, and there’s a report that the AI developed at TU Wien can suggest appropriate treatment steps for blood poisoning, and the computer already outperforms humans there. So various tests were carried out with the available data basis, and it was found that far more accurate results come out of this than when the doctor or the treating physician has to make decisions on their own. And here it’s about using and applying such possibilities in a supportive way — not in the sense of “I don’t want to be replaced by the system,” but looking, where it really makes sense, at how there can be, I really like the term symbiosis in this context, how humans and machines — because ultimately this is nothing other than data feeding and machine learning and so on — can work together, always within the framework we set, that we program, these smart devices and so on don’t make just any decisions, but always within the parameters that are given — and then looking at how you can meaningfully bring humans and machines into harmony and see how that can be shaped.

And just a quick note on Ismail’s question — I think it’s really nice that you’re bringing up the term 5G here. As far as I remember, we actually haven’t specifically covered 5G in our room planning, but I think it’s really important. So let me just signal here that I’ll take that with me and make sure we consider it in our room planning — I think 5G is far too relevant a topic for us to just briefly touch on it here on the side. And since you’ve brought up the topic now, I think that’s great — it strikes me that we haven’t considered it at all, and I’ll make sure we look at the room planning again to see where it best fits, and maybe we’ll either pick it up as a separate topic or fit it in somewhere it works well, so it can get enough space of its own too. And now there’s another question — which app would you recommend for measuring breathing? Marc, that question is for you — but I don’t think it’s really about giving specific recommendations today, you’d have to look at the market yourself for that, what’s out there. I don’t know if you want to give a recommendation, Marc — personally I’d rather keep that open. I think it makes sense to spark curiosity on the one hand, to show there are a lot of possibilities, and on the other hand to say, take a look, really engage with these topics, and see what’s out there. Marc, would you like to respond to that question again?

Yes, I agree with that 100 percent. I would never, ever give a recommendation. The knowledge I share here, I gather from reading, I get it from conversations — but I’d only give a recommendation if I’d actually worn that app myself and knew exactly that I’d had good experiences with it. But even then I wouldn’t do it, because — just as background information — if someone buys an app like that, they’re hoping for something from it, and imagine that specific app fails. It’s exactly like legal advice from a lawyer — you can’t give that in these rooms either, that carries a huge responsibility. And I see it exactly the way you do — this is meant to simply open people’s eyes, so that once the room is over, we ourselves keep searching and keep engaging with the topic. But that’s how I hold myself to it too — I’d never recommend a company, and I’d never name a specific app. It’s only about broadening the perspective.

Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. And it’s actually relatively rare for us to recommend apps or things like that here. The only exceptions we have, and I’d like to make that connection here too, are things like, I don’t know, Patrick Wenke, who’s now become a firm part of the community, whom we also know personally, where we know the app is developed properly and that, for example, the data on it doesn’t get passed on, but in the interest of data protection, the photos that get uploaded there are only available on your own mobile device or similar. But there we have personal contact, and so we simply assume it fits, in inverted commas — those are the only exceptions we have. Otherwise, I think everyone really has to take responsibility for themselves here and weigh up which app, software, or tool they want to use at this point. And this can change over time too, so first of all, no false expectations should be raised, and in terms of the safety aspect, if something later goes wrong because of some scandal in some context, we’re not responsible for that either, because we obviously don’t want to take on that responsibility here. And that brings us back to this topic of education, in inverted commas. I think it’s wonderful to build that bridge here again too, because it’s about self-determination, self-organization, and self-efficacy — always using these rooms to actually gather information, pick up impulses, and then, in the next step, actually engage more deeply with it yourself and find solutions and decisions that fit for you. Sebastian, a wonderful good morning — what would you like to contribute to the topic?

Yes, good morning. I joined a bit later, so I wanted to ask if you still need some support — technical, or I’ll say from the concept side, how engineers generally develop IoT devices. That’s basically the topic I deal with almost daily as an engineer.

Yes, very, very gladly, as long as you promise not to get too technical, so we can still understand you and your language.

Okay, great, I can manage that, because that’s exactly the point I have with my startups or my SMEs, where I do some consulting work as, let’s say, an innovator and engineer. There’s this so-called IoT chip that doesn’t actually exist — that’s something people search for and think, if you want to build a device like that, it’s simple, you just put in a chip like that and the whole thing works. And that’s exactly what you have to explain to people, that it’s just not that simple. And I just understood a bit, with the app, with this health thing, with the variables — it’s just not that simple, for someone with a creative idea, for example, to quickly develop an IoT device and bring it to market. There’s an enormous amount of service, engineering know-how, costs, and development time behind it, and it just doesn’t happen that easily. And this point, right at the start, for the idea generators, the creative young people who just want to bring something to market because they want to measure something — usually it’s about wanting to measure something, display something, diagnose something, and then somehow display it via a smart route, via the phone, via the internet. And this entire chain behind it is an enormous engineering and, I’ll say, development effort — from software to electronics to industrial design too, because industrial design plays into the IoT topic too, since some things need to look different. Just a first impulse on how IoT devices actually come to be.

Yes, great, thank you, thank you so much. We’ve already brought in a few application examples — maybe you have some from the business world too, or would like to share a bit about what topics you work on, that would be lovely too. Would you like to add anything to that?

Yes, I think what’s been most prominent in recent years — besides this so-called IIoT, the double I stands for Industrial Internet of Things, where a lot of automation and networking goes into it — if you imagine everyone being in home office, then the topic of air quality came up. So the topic of diagnosing or displaying or at least reporting, hey, the room air is getting bad — you can smell it, sure, but suddenly there was a big rush on these air quality sensors. And then all these sleek applications came out, where someone thought, wouldn’t it be nice to put a little cube on the table that just changes color when the room air quality in an office or home office drops, so you open a window, or just generally shows, hey, something’s happening here, and now, because of Covid measures, we need to open the window. Or in rooms like schools, that was a really big topic — simply displaying, okay, what’s happening now, how many kids are in here, when does the air get bad, when is a critical point reached? And then there was a really big rush on this, let’s say, networking with Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, phone, and bringing in this sensor technology — ultimately that became an IoT system that got developed, so to speak, and I had a client I supported who just had a wooden box and said, well, what can we do with this now — and I said, well, you come from design, from the mechanical, wood-processing world, but you have no idea about electronics and don’t know the effort involved, and I unfortunately have to tell you, this doesn’t cost 5,000 euros to develop, we’re in the mid five-figure range to make your device IoT-capable. And it’s not just about putting in an IoT chip and somehow networking it with a phone — because building one device is easy, but creating a product that works with many phones or has direct internet access, this scalability, that’s a whole different level. You can always get a prototype working somehow, but a sellable product that goes to the masses, that maybe should also have the right price for the customer, that’s really a huge engineering and industrialization question. That was the air quality topic — how do you make bad smells visible on your phone?

Yes, really exciting, and I find it really exciting too to get an insight into this complexity. You just mentioned it’s not just about a prototype, but there are so many end devices ultimately, and it has to be compatible with various end devices too. Maybe you’ll recognize this from other contexts that have nothing to do with IoT — let’s take the simplest example, software that only exists for Android or something, so it doesn’t get extended to all end devices. That shows what has to be accomplished in development, to prepare and process things, and make them market-ready and accessible, especially if you want to bring it to the masses. So of course we have this not just in the IoT sector, but in all sectors, and the more complex the topics are, the more technology is behind them and so on, the more challenging it gets. But it also shows, I think, that it’s not something that can be developed overnight in one place or another, but that it needs time too. And it’s worth raising awareness of this again here, because we’re talking about all these technological topics, whether IoT or the other aspects like blockchain or whatever, to make clear why it’s so important, especially as a self-employed entrepreneur and so on, to engage with these topics in a timely way — not necessarily to develop a product yourself, but to stay on top of it, because these are all aspects tied to change, and change is tied to learning processes, and learning processes take time too, just as development processes take their time, or even just to be able to handle the application itself. That too requires trying things out as a prerequisite — first research, make a decision, what do I want to use, what don’t I want to use, and then actually deploy and implement it for yourself. Sebastian.

And exactly that bridge to education is a really pivotal point. If someone among the listeners has, say, a young adult, in the age range of, let’s say, 14 to — that’s an ideal time frame, where you’re still a bit in school, in university, trying things out. There are various ways to get access to these small electronics, these design kits for example, and just to play — a bit like Neko Costumes, just trying things out, and giving young people, and young women too, since female engineers are still very much sought after, the opportunity to really combine programming and electronics — just making a small LED light up. That’s a really great experience, I found it really exciting too when I once taught this. When you manage, via your phone, through your own program, over Wi-Fi, over the internet transmission point, to turn on a small LED somewhere — that’s really the basic step. How do I manage to turn on an LED, or show something on a display, on some remote piece of electronics connected via IoT? That’s an experience, that’s a learning step. Building this whole chain step by step, understanding it, and then also thinking about whether what you’re building is actually secure, don’t I need security in the background too? And then the whole thing gets much, much more complex, and then it moves toward radio, communication, over kilometers of distance. You could take it that far, but the smallest step really is, how do I manage to turn on a little light somewhere in the corner via my phone? That’s training, that’s the starting line, and I got to go through all of that myself.

Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. And I’d like to raise awareness here that this isn’t only relevant if you’re working as an engineer in these fields — some of you might think, well, my kids aren’t in that field or anything, just to bring up an example and show this diversity again. I studied education with a focus on adult education, that’s already many years ago, and back then web-based training was really coming into fashion, and we did projects where the point was to actually design and develop these web-based trainings yourself. And even though you’re working as an adult educator, there’s a lot of technology in the background there too — developing a certain affinity for these systems, looking at how they can be shaped. And that then has to be connected with didactics, meaning it actually supports the learning process — not just the pure technical application, but the connection of technology and teaching, which was our topic. And that’s really, really exciting, and especially getting into fields like that to just try things out, to see, even mistakes are okay, so to speak, having a learning environment where it’s not about having a market-ready product, but about establishing these points of contact in the first place. And looking back, I can say, when I look back on that time, I learned so, so much that also contributed to continuously developing this technical affinity, and in many contexts of adult education, to keep re-establishing this connection to technology. And that’s why you shouldn’t think, along the lines of, I’m not in this engineering context, or my child isn’t, so this has nothing to do with me — but rather consider what the connecting points are to your own business, and maybe look at it from that perspective too. Marc, do you have anything to add to that, or any thoughts?

No, not to that. I just wanted to briefly add something on the medical aspect, which you already mentioned — with doctors, when it comes to evaluating data, apps and programs like this really help, especially when, say, we get our lungs X-rayed and a computer can draw on millions of X-ray results, then an AI can of course evaluate that much, much faster and help the doctor if they’re unsure or overlook something — the computer is then much, much more precise. And since it’s about our own diagnosis, our own safety, real medical steps that need to be taken, in that case I think what’s happening there is fantastic. And also, since I mentioned babies earlier with the pajamas — we’re also an aging society, and I imagine, for everyone here who still has parents who might live alone, if they no longer have a partner, that it would also be a comforting feeling for me if there were an app that told me if one of my parents hadn’t moved for an extended period, so I could get help in time even if I live hundreds of kilometers away. And there too there are really, really great possibilities that genuinely represent an improvement in quality of life, because human lives can be saved through it.

Yes, thank you, thank you so much. And I think what becomes clear in the room today is, first, that we have different perspectives — I can look at it purely from the user’s perspective, in the sense of, I have an end device, it can do this or that, what can I use it for. I can look at it from the perspective of a self-employed person or entrepreneur, seeing how I can use certain things for myself, maybe even go into product development myself, depending on size and possibilities and so on. And at the same time it shows the complexity too — and especially since we’ve had this kind of discussion the past few days, this thing that’s always discussed, or looked at with great concern, along the lines of, will we be replaced as humans, will all the jobs get eliminated or something — and I think today’s room, together with the previous rooms, shows really nicely what kind of complexity is actually emerging in the background here. All of that can and must be handled, and it makes clear that while, on the one hand, tasks might change, positions might change, we will, because of the complexity inherent in these technologies, in what this is — it’s not something that gets developed overnight, but requires resources to accomplish exactly these things and to learn how to handle them, and so on. And it also shows how the labor market, if we put one and one together, might also make clear that it’s not simply about eliminating jobs, but that a whole lot of new jobs are also being created. But it will also mean, if we look at this education context again, that a lot, a lot of retraining will be needed. There will be a lot of new tasks — on the one hand what gets maintained and supported, on the other hand what happens in development, and a lot of new possibilities are created here too. All the more important, then, to be aware of this and to go along with this development a step of the way, to be ready to take that step too. Sebastian.

Yes, I can confirm that. And what you don’t see in the IoT space is actually a big — I’ll say you need several large teams, software development teams, that are sometimes no longer in the normal engineering environment but docked at consulting firms — the big five, which people somewhat know. And behind that, and this is what I see, someone has to write this software or this application so it looks good, and most of the resources aren’t sitting in Germany. There are still too few software developers, project managers, and the whole thing naturally goes to the corresponding countries, like Asia or India, where the developers sit, and within that, it’s subject to what’s wanted by the people who dream up these IoT concepts — you want to bring it to market quickly, so you need trained people, and it’s simply, I need something functional quickly for my applications, and of course these work templates aren’t always in Germany. That’s also a topic — there are actually a lot of good ways to get into the IoT business through project management, software management, or business case or business development.

Yes, very cool, thank you, thank you so much. And that also shows the possibilities that actually exist here, provided you approach these topics with a certain “openness,” look at them with curiosity, and explore a bit for yourself what possibilities might open up here — how can I use this for my own business, what possibilities are there regarding the next generation, in inverted commas — so thinking from various perspectives here too and discovering different possibilities for yourself. Well, given the time, I’d say this was a wonderful room. Let’s move into the closing round together for today, and then I’ll gladly announce tomorrow’s room too. Marc, what were your highlights, or what would you like to underline again?

You just mentioned the word education again, and I find that really important, and that’s why I welcome the fact that in North Rhine-Westphalia, and the other federal states will follow, reading competency in our elementary schools is being reinforced again, because apparently it’s been found that a quarter of students in certain schools can no longer read at all, and if they can read, there’s a comprehension difficulty. And that means we’re already losing a quarter of the new generation if education continues to matter — and it’s going to matter even more. And that’s why I think it’s good that action is being taken there too, that starting already at elementary schools, we’re keeping an eye on making sure people aren’t left alone with this, because what they lose there, without being able to read, they’ll simply lose touch in secondary school. Otherwise I have nothing more to add — I’m looking forward to what’s still coming, both in your rooms and in the future.

Wonderful, thank you, thank you so much, Sebastian.

Yes, I’ll pass along a tip for anyone currently working on job applications or supporting people with them — you can cross out Excel, Word, PowerPoint, and just put in IoT, Smart City, and some keywords like that, and the applications work much, much better. Just put IoT in everywhere, that’s really what’s trending right now.

Wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. Yes, I think we’ve opened up a lot, a lot of different aspects again today, had some nice examples along the way. Surely some of this was new to some of you too, so the impulses can keep working on you — maybe new question marks came up that inspire you to start your own research and go deeper into this. We’ll continue tomorrow with the topic of 3D printing — that’s another technology, or another result that emerges here — tomorrow, well now today, we’ll look at 3D printing and its potential in various industries, and I’m really curious about that too. So that’s the next technology we want to look into, and you’re warmly invited to join again tomorrow at 8, gladly bringing in various examples too, if anyone is themselves in that industry, sharing your experience, your expertise with us, or if you’re in an observer role, if you’ve had touchpoints with 3D printing yourself, bring in application examples and so on, and let’s see what 3D printing is actually about. And so we continue over the coming days, always picking up different technologies under one overarching room theme, to then bring them together again and look at the combination, and, based on that, look at what effects this has, what it means for us, what opportunities arise from it, where there are also “dangers,” in inverted commas, viewed from various perspectives, in order to generate new insights for ourselves and, in the end, also look at the socio-political level — what does this mean not just as an individual but also socio-politically, where can we actually move, what should really be on the agenda, so that, as we mentioned earlier, the gap doesn’t get too big and we don’t fall behind in competition either. With that, I wish you a wonderful day, whatever you have planned today, and I look forward to welcoming you again tomorrow morning at 8 here at Deep Talk. Until then, ciao!