Brain Food for Pioneering Spirits: What role do honesty and authenticity play in gaining insight and in personal growth — and does being authentic always mean telling the truth? That’s the question we explore in Room #846 of the Deep Talk Club, under our overarching theme of “Insight (and gaining it).” Listen in on the examples that came up and the perspectives that emerged in dialogue…
Note: This session was recorded live in German as part of the Deep Talk Club, so the video above is German-language audio only. What follows is an English translation of the conversation, lightly edited for readability — the back-and-forth between the moderator and participants is preserved, but the original timestamps and speaker names have been left out.
A wonderful good morning. Today we’re talking about authenticity and self-knowledge. So what role do honesty, genuineness, or whatever we understand by authenticity, play for gaining insight and for personal growth — that’s the question we want to engage with today. We already touched on some aspects in this direction in our room yesterday, things that already shimmered through a bit. And today it’s about really diving into the depth, looking more closely at the terms themselves, as well as the experiences we’ve had with this, examples we can bring in, and so on, to sort our thoughts together, reflect, and gain and take away new insights for ourselves in this exchange, whatever that means individually for each of you. In that sense you’re all very, very warmly invited to join again this morning and enrich this exchange with questions, contributions you’d like to bring in, examples you might draw from life or the business world. And yes, for anyone joining for the first time today, a quick reminder that we’re recording the room for the whole time, and that will then be published accordingly. So anyone who joins agrees to that. And yes, we also have three small room rules that apply to everyone equally. One is a profile photo where you’re clearly recognizable, first and last name, and at least one sentence in your bio. Anyone who doesn’t want that for whatever reason is warmly invited to use the chat and bring in contributions, questions, or similar there. And then I’ll gladly look at how that fits well into the discussion, and pick that up too. And with that I’d like to mute myself this morning and see who’d like to join. A wonderful good morning, dear Marc. What do you say about this topic?
Good morning to the round, lovely to be here with you all again. Well, actually it’s a paradox, and I’d like to start with the word honest. We’ve all surely heard the belief instilled in us as children that we shouldn’t lie. And if we met each other, lying wouldn’t be a nice thing either. And we’d all certainly say, everyone in this room would say 100%, I don’t lie, and no, lying isn’t good. What our parents didn’t teach us, though, is that we shouldn’t actually start by being honest with other people, but by being honest with ourselves — that is, not lying to ourselves. And at the same time, as a child we’re expected to be honest with others. And on the other hand, we’re influenced by our whole environment about how we should be. You have to do this, you have to go to school, you should be like this. And that’s where I identified a paradox for myself. And for me the most important task, or the insight I had, was to be honest with myself. But that only happened because someone asked me questions — a coach. And those questions can be very, very uncomfortable, because in that dialogue, in that conversation with the coach, I’m forced to engage with myself and then really give an honest answer. And that answer can sometimes hurt, but it’s very helpful for then gaining the insight again of where I actually want to go, am I on the right path, is this the right partner, the right job, am I happy, and so on and so on. And that’s why honesty is such an important insight for us, and I can only underline that honesty with ourselves leads to growth.
Yes, wonderful, thank you so, so much. And I’m really curious what the others say too, because we already noted yesterday a few aspects that came up, sameness, and then the differentiation to say, well, being genuine isn’t the same as being identical in every possible context and situation. It’s more about being genuine than being the same. That was one thing I threw into the room yesterday. Now we also have this aspect of honesty in there too. The question is, what does being authentic actually have to do with honesty? Does that necessarily go hand in hand? That’s maybe the first question we can really engage with here too. Does it always mean having to tell the truth, or, and we’ve discussed this too, what even is truth in this context, and you just said honesty in this context also means being honest with yourself. So here too the differentiation regarding my own person and what happens externally. And then yesterday I also brought up the aspect of tensions and dilemmas, which we can look at here too. Aren’t these also certain paradoxes that play a certain role in various contexts, especially now with this high speed of change, all these influences pouring in on us from outside, and in many situations — we observe this in business contexts with leaders and similar too — where you might have to make decisions without exactly knowing what will happen afterward or how the whole thing will turn out, and in many places uncertainty has to be endured, and that as one of the future skills, so to speak, to deal with certain situations in an agile way, to keep adjusting and adapting, and to make decisions, for example, against the backdrop that I don’t even know whether I have the information available to make a solid decision — that’s already where it starts. And how is that in the context of authenticity? Don’t we perhaps also have various dilemmas here that we simply have to deal with at first and that can’t really be resolved? That’s a question we can really engage with, to get more clarity for ourselves. What actually is behind all this, and why is authenticity such a hard word to pronounce? It sounds very simple, but then in the doing it’s perhaps not so simple after all, as when we talk about it in theory. And in that sense I’d like to invite the others to join too. As I said, we’re recording, just as a reminder again. You agree to that when you join. I’d be happy if, beyond the thoughts we’re sharing here with Marc, we also get further facets in, further perspectives, which can also be completely different from what we’re bringing in here as thoughts, just to see in dialogue what emerges from that. Please make sure, when you raise your hand to speak, that you have a clear photo where you’re recognizable, a profile photo I mean, then a clear name, first and last, and at least one sentence in your bio. Marc, what do you say to that?
I have something else I’d like to share with you. Honesty is helping me a lot right now, actually, in the crisis, in customer acquisition, because of the following process. We call someone, we want to win new customers. They might feel disturbed and want to get rid of us as quickly as possible. And one blocker we all get is always being told, just send us something by email. That’s the fastest way to get rid of someone. And then it’s incredibly fun for me to reply, what do you think, dear Yasemin, what would I write to you in an email as a managing director, other than that you’re lucky to get to know me, we’re the best, but I don’t decide that, you decide that. I can’t write you anything else. So we could really just delete that email right away and throw it in the bin, and I’d like to introduce myself with a product, because only once you have my product in your hands will you decide whether it’s a good product or not. Then the other person laughs, and then I at least get to introduce myself. Because that’s how it is when we represent a company — what am I supposed to tell the other person? Should I be honest and say, actually you’re unlucky that I’m calling you and our products are bad? Of course we’re all the best, and I use this process precisely to break through this loop of being blocked by an email or a letter or a posting, which in my opinion is a waste of time.
Yes, thank you so, so much. And here of course we can open up further questions too. Is this maybe honesty as a strategy at this point? Sympathy gets created that way, at least based on what you just said. The question is, does it really have to be honest in this context? It could really also be a strategic approach that maybe isn’t honest at all. But well, it’s unusual, and because of that people feel it’s not run-of-the-mill, so to speak, and it has some effect on the other person. Or what is it that ultimately, when I create this information or this transparency, this authenticity in this conversation, ultimately generates? And maybe we’re at this congruence, incongruence point here too, meaning either alignment or divergence between what I say and what I also transmit, for example the tonality through speaking speed, when we meet in person too, gestures, facial expressions and so on. So there are a lot of components involved here too. And the second question in this context, also to build this bridge again, is what does that ultimately have to do with insight or self-knowledge?
Well, I think we all play a role, and honesty starts with the fact that in the role we play — we’re partners, we’re brothers, we’re business partners, we’re friends, we can be silly — and honesty there is again honesty toward ourselves, that we need to feel comfortable in the role we’re currently playing, and yes, it is a strategy, but a strategy doesn’t have to be bad. I’m deeply convinced that in our strategy too, or the one we apply, we all want to move forward, we all pursue goals. And for me it simply doesn’t make sense, if I were, say, looking for a partner, to get to know someone and tell them, I’d love to get to know you, but actually I drink and actually I have these and those weaknesses. It’s not necessarily a smart strategy to start with your weaknesses. But it can be smart to report on your weaknesses. With honesty, in that case again honesty, we can also make ourselves likeable and so on. And we see that this whole thing is so complex. But fundamentally, since you asked, is it just a strategy — a strategy doesn’t have to be a bad thing if it leads to the goal and doesn’t harm anyone in the process.
Yes, thank you so, so much. Now let’s consider whether there are also situations where being authentic could be a hindrance. Those probably exist too, right? Can we say being authentic is always a good means to an end, in quotes? Or aren’t there also situations where we’d rather not be authentic? I don’t know, Marc, whether you want to continue directly or whether we should bring in Sonja first, however you like.
Well, no, I’m definitely not always authentic, because I don’t like getting into a discourse when it comes to certain discussions, when it heads in a political direction. Then I’d rather pull out of it. I don’t like arguing. I think my part and then say goodbye. And no, for me it doesn’t make sense to always be authentic. We play different roles, and some opinions don’t align with mine at all. And if I’d feel uncomfortable, even in a room here on Clubhouse, then I leave that room, because I don’t want to deal with uncomfortable thoughts or uncomfortable energies. That doesn’t do me good, and what doesn’t do me good, I avoid.
Yes, thank you so, so much. And that presupposes, to some extent, that I have self-knowledge or clarity about what authenticity means for me and in which contexts that makes sense for me personally, or where I consider it sensible. What exactly does that go along with? And what levers can I use, so to speak, to apply this authenticity, to make it effective, to make it noticeable for the other person? And at the same time, when do I consider it rather inappropriate in a certain context? And in the example you just brought up, would that be a strategy of withdrawal, for example leaving the room or similar? So also having coping models, so to speak, for how I deal with certain situations. And here too there are very different options, again context-dependent, how I can deal with it and what I consider appropriate for myself at that point. Sonja, a wonderful good morning. What do you say about that?
Yes, a wonderful good morning to the round. Yes, authenticity and self-knowledge, that’s a topic I often think about myself too, because I strive to live very authentically, and that’s not always comfortable, let’s put it that way — not comfortable for others, and it sometimes makes it uncomfortable for me too, because being authentic for me also means speaking truths, truths that fit me but might not be so fortunate for the situation, not so harmonizing. And because of that I always stay very close to myself. And what struck me, I was just thinking about it when you asked whether there are also situations where this is a hindrance — my first impulse was, yes, it’s definitely a hindrance. And then I thought, are there situations where I’m not authentic, when I have this high aspiration to always be authentic? And yes, there are, namely whenever I feel uncomfortable and insecure in an environment, then I’m not very much myself, and then I’m also less authentic, and I notice that I’m not in my power at all, and this radiance I usually bring, I consider myself someone who comes across as rather charismatic and feels that way too, but if I don’t feel comfortable in an environment, that’s not the case at all, then I come across as insecure, reserved, small, and I’m a completely different personality. And that’s why it’s very worthwhile for me to be authentic, because it puts me in my power. And that’s the self-knowledge contained in that for me, that it’s a source of power. And that’s why it simply has to be that way, even if it becomes uncomfortable, that I act authentically. Thank you.
Yes, thank you so, so much. And various thoughts come up for me here too, through what you just brought in. On one hand this aspect, what price do I pay for it? That means in both directions, whether I’m authentic or whether I’m not authentic. And just like with decisions, which we’ve discussed — ultimately, whether I make a decision or don’t make a decision, that’s also a decision, I always pay a price for it, so to speak. Here too, from my perspective, being authentic makes me pay a price, and not being authentic likewise makes me pay a price. So here too, always looking at that again. And especially because we just talked about this hindrance aspect, and we had the aspect of honesty and telling the truth — I mean, can’t I be authentic without it being a hindrance for me? Just as an example, do I always have to tell the truth to be authentic? Couldn’t I, in certain situations where I notice, oh, now it’s getting tricky, in quotes, and the price for me there would now be too high, still be authentic by, for example, saying, I’d rather not say anything about that right now. That’s still genuine, but I haven’t shared my true thought at that point. What do you all say to that?
Let me just unmute, the blinking wasn’t seen. Yes, I find what you’re saying totally sensible. It’s sometimes very helpful to emphasize a different aspect of the truth and, I’d say, stay as creative as possible with it. Creative but honest, or creative and honest. That’s possible too. I don’t have to share my main thought with the other person to be authentic; it’s enough to share one thought. And if every time I found someone unlikeable, I emphasized exactly that point in the communication, I’d very quickly be very alone. I’d be super authentic, but that certainly wouldn’t put me in my power. And that’s why I think it’s also important to regulate yourself a little and serve a different part of honesty. And in my opinion that doesn’t make a person less authentic, just a bit more strategic and regulated. And I personally find that good for social relationships.
Yes, wonderful, thank you so, so much. That was a nice example. And with that I’d like to bring in Andreas. A wonderful good morning, dear Andreas. What do you say to that?
A wonderful good morning to everyone. I hope I’m not jumping ahead, because I found the headline so exciting, but I haven’t been in long enough to catch the introduction. And I’d like to throw a question into the round first of all — does society even allow us to be authentic at all? Does the bubble we move in even allow us to be authentic? And that’s the self-knowledge, or the insight in general, on this topic of authenticity for me, that we constantly find certain expectations within certain societal frameworks, and then have to ask ourselves — and this fits very well with what you and also Sonja just said — whether it even makes sense to be authentic and self-regulated in this bubble. And I actually believe that for personal development, that’s maybe one of the most hindering points, that we regulate ourselves, that we believe we’re not allowed to be authentic, not allowed to say our opinion, because we’re considerate of others due to the possibility of discussions arising, or escalations that could arise — I actually believe that with this self-regulation we block ourselves so much that it’s a shame not to have this or that experience and then draw an insight from it, or maybe also give the other person the opportunity to draw an insight, because they suddenly notice that maybe this or that perspective that these guardrails we’re within bring with them isn’t actually so beneficial for a result in a project or fundamentally for a personality either.
Yes, thank you so, so much. I’m already curious what the others say to that too. Again, for anyone new in the room today, a reminder that we’re recording here. That means anyone who’d like to come up on stage is warmly invited to bring in their perspective too, and automatically agrees that the recording will be published. We have three small room rules that apply equally to everyone, simply to make sure it’s not Clubhouse trolls but genuinely meant contributions. That’s a profile photo where you’re clearly recognizable, first and last name, and at least one sentence in your bio. So anyone who’d like to join, please make sure the room rules are followed, then I can take you into account too. Anyone who doesn’t want that for whatever reason can of course also share a contribution with us in the chat, and then I can pick that up here too. So on one hand the aspect Andreas just brought in, and we have another contribution in the chat. I’m of the opinion that if you have something on your mind, you should say it and not act politically, because you only get further if you’re honest. And it’s underlined here again, it’s not an attack, just a personal opinion. And then we also have honesty — my personal observation is mostly that the smarter and more successful you are in terms of PPP, property, power, prestige, the more dishonest you become. And Tobias also writes, I think the question that can fundamentally help us decide whether to say something or not is, what’s this about, and is my statement helpful for that. Yes, so much for that, and now I’m curious about the cross-connections. Marc, gladly.
I’d like to bring a new word into play, namely empathy, and I keep noticing, it’s really fascinating, there are two kinds of people, one kind who says, I’m authentic and I’m honest, and just a small example, we had this once before in this Clubhouse room too — we meet privately, we all know each other here in the group, and I’m invited somewhere, and someone has saved up for a living room for a really long time through their work and is totally thrilled about it. I won’t say now how it’s furnished, but he thinks it’s absolutely wonderful. Now I could be totally honest and walk in and say, hey Mark, how do you like it? Look, my new kitchen or my new living room just arrived. Now I’m totally honest and say, honestly, I think that’s totally awful. Not my taste at all. So honestly, I’d put it out with the bulk trash the next day, and even though it’s new, it would go straight to the trash, I couldn’t live in it. What do I do with that? Empathy means for me, wow, I’m happy for you. Sometimes the art is also in leaving out information, and I don’t have to be honest. That’s my philosophy now. I can still be happy with someone while being empathetic. But then I always observe in discussions that there are two kinds of people. One says, well, that’s his problem if he’s upset that I told him my honest opinion, because he asked me, so I’m honest and I’m authentic. And everyone decides for themselves which path to take there. But as I said, I simply feel more comfortable when I avoid such a discussion, because it doesn’t bring anything. What benefit does the other person get if something is important to them and I just brush it aside like that. We all have our own constructed realities, and that’s fine too, if you’re allowed to live in that. And that’s just how I’m made and how I act. Whether that’s right or wrong, everyone will see it however they act, and everyone will find their arguments for their behavior. But I simply always feel more comfortable when I deal with people empathetically and when I’m not always honest.
Yes, wonderful, thank you so, so much, and the evaluation is then, so to speak, only in second or third place, but rather to try to look at it neutrally first, and the evaluation, everyone then makes that for themselves accordingly afterward. And what you just brought in with this aspect of empathy, in the business context too we speak for example of situational awareness, so having a sense of the situation, also goes along with a certain empathy at that point. That also means establishing context references and, against the backdrop of what the goal and purpose is and so on, acting accordingly. And you might well know this too. It doesn’t even necessarily have anything to do with, well now if we look at it from this evaluation perspective, is that cowardly, am I then not honest and so on and so forth — we’re stuck in evaluation everywhere there. But there are certainly also, for example, conversations where the question even arises, is that even necessary at all? Does it get us anywhere in any form, in quotes, to also consider such aspects? That means, what do I gain now by saying something truthfully or being honest or whatever, or does it not help us at all in this context, and therefore it’s not necessary at all, and therefore I choose a different strategy. So these are aspects too, and what Andreas said, I find that very, very exciting too. Is this even wanted at all? Does our society even allow it? So on one hand, if we look at it individually, there’s this aspect that more and more attention is being paid to meaning and so on, and many, many terms in this context are getting more space too, where people engage with this, maybe also very strongly conditioned or reinforced by this whole Corona period, where many people were home and maybe thought about certain things that we hadn’t taken so much time for in everyday life in the past. And at the same time this societal aspect — is that even socially conforming at all? Is it even wanted at all? Is it even allowed at all? And I find that a really, really exciting aspect in this context too. Does anyone want to say something more about that?
Yes, gladly Marc, and then Sonja.
I’m not a woman, but I’d still like to share the experience, because I’ve talked to a lot of women. And what’s totally fascinating is that self-confident women, when they’re speed dating and looking for a partner, every man tells them, you’re self-confident. I find that great. You’re a self-confident woman. Oh, that’s wonderful. But most men then have a problem when they discover that the woman is so self-confident that she’s built a career, that she earns double what the man does. Then it’s over very, very quickly. In our old role behavior with self-confidence. And the woman was only being honest, and she was only being authentic too. And then I’m back with Andreas, that sometimes it’s not wanted at all if you’re too authentic and too self-confident, because there are simply groups and people who can’t handle that at all and don’t want that at all.
Yes, thank you so, so much. Exciting aspect. Sonja, what do you say to that?
Yes, I’ve also observed that it’s really not wanted at all that someone is very honest and authentic. I have an example in mind from a coaching session I gave. A woman described a situation where her partner is lying with his head on her lap, and she asks him, hey, what are you thinking about right now? And she wished he would really be honest. And he was honest and said that he’d been thinking about a former relationship, and wanted to elaborate on it. And before he could elaborate on it, she interrupted him and said, hey, that can’t be, you’re lying here with me in such a relaxed situation and thinking about your ex-girlfriend, and with that he no longer had any opportunity to answer that question. I think that’s a really typical example of how we sometimes fool ourselves when we say, I want you to be authentic and I want you to be honest, and we don’t engage with the question, can we handle it if the other person really accepts this offer? And that’s a really valuable point. I asked myself that question. And I can handle it. I’ve tried it a few times too. I really can handle it. And so far I’ve only met very few people who can handle it too. And I find those particularly fascinating. Thank you.
Yes, thank you so, so much. Yes, Andreas.
Above all, I’m not always protecting people — and let’s phrase it a bit more provocatively now — if I speak according to what they want to hear, I mean, if I tell people what they want to hear, that doesn’t always mean I’m protecting a relationship or protecting that person. Let me take a very mundane example, which we get to see once a year on RTL, when it comes to “Deutschland sucht den Superstar” or some other casting format. And someone stands up front, sings, and everyone can hear that it doesn’t sound good. And then the question is asked, well, who told you that you can sing? Well, my family, my friends said it sounds pretty good. So with that I’m not protecting anyone, if in doubt; rather, through this answer that the other person would like to hear, because I don’t want to upset them, I ensure that they suffer much more afterward, have much less self-confidence. And we see that in so, so many areas. This is now a very, very flat example that we often see in the mainstream. But it also exists in school systems and elsewhere. When we raise children toward a self-confidence, toward a character that in the end doesn’t match what’s reflected outward at all. And parents actually have a huge responsibility exactly in that direction, which is often underestimated or overlooked, because we’re so occupied with our own lives, with our own problems, that we neglect this responsibility to some extent too. That can then, further down the line, for this topic of personal development, self-knowledge in young people, lead to a completely different external image forming than the self-image that exists.
Yes, thank you so, so much. That’s an exciting point you’re raising. But I’d really like to open up the differentiation again with the example I brought earlier. That doesn’t mean I have to lie to someone. I can very well also be authentic by, for example, saying that I don’t want to comment on that or similar. And then the other person can maybe think what they want about it, but whether they interpret that correctly is another matter. But there is a difference whether I consciously deceive someone, in quotes, or whether I, for example, hold back or restrain myself in my statement, in order to not, for example, ruin the other person’s joy or similar. There can be various reasons for that too. Marc, Sonja, wanted to follow up here. Gladly, Marc.
I’m just imagining the situation, but you’d really have to be very, very insensitive there. I show up with a new car or whatever — hey Yasemin, look, I bought a new car. What do you say to that? You say, I’d rather not comment on that right now. That’s exactly it. You’ve just commented on it. And I have to deal with that too, because then, you’re absolutely right, I then interpret your statement somehow. The only form I might understand would be if you said, I’d rather not comment on that right now because my phone is ringing and I have to answer it. But everything else is also a statement, just phrased more nicely in that case. And I then appreciate that, that you didn’t hurt me, that I then know exactly, you don’t want to comment. And if I’m smart enough, you’ve just given me a hint over the fence that you don’t like it, without telling me. And I appreciate that then, and that’s at least a not-quite-so-brutal way of dealing with the truth, compared to hitting the other person right away with the sledgehammer method of saying what you really think.
Yes, and here, well, that’s just one example, and here too the context reference is important again and again. In that case I might rather say, well, there’s no accounting for taste, as they say, and I’d probably even laugh about it, and then say, but I’m happy for you and with you, because I can see that you’re really enjoying it, and there it’s positively connoted again, so the other person doesn’t hold it against me, in quotes, but at the same time I’ve also made clear that it doesn’t match my taste, without badmouthing it. So that would be an example of that. Sonja.
Yes, you just opened up a really important aspect too. I first wanted to say something about that sentence, I’d rather not comment on that, because pretty much everyone recognizes that that’s not approval. But if I choose a different phrasing now, and you just brought that in too, and maybe even add a pinch of humor, then it can succeed very well in packaging something that the other person maybe doesn’t even really notice. If I take a tricky example, the woman comes back from the hairdresser, spent hours at the hairdresser, and asks — doesn’t matter whether it’s a friend or a partner — and asks, hey, I was at the hairdresser, what do you think? And if you then say, I’d rather not comment on that, that’s I think conceivably insensitive, but if you try to shift the focus to something else instead, for example, hey, you’re glowing so wonderfully, you can pull off anything, or, any hairstyle looks good on you — well, that’s not humorous now, but it’s definitely appreciative. At that moment it would have to fit the person, then she can accept it much more easily, and only the empathetic ones really understand that the other person doesn’t actually like it. And the others reinterpret it and say, oh, they liked it. And I think it’s actually quite good if you don’t have to separate the wheat from the chaff, but rather leave it to the other person’s sensitivity whether they recognize the true message or not, and you’ve stayed honest anyway, just creatively.
Yes wonderful, thank you so, so much. Marc, gladly. I’m not sure if Andreas also wanted to say something. Yes, then you were probably actually before Andreas. Then I’d say, Andreas first and then Marc afterward.
Yes, I’d like to pick up on what Sonja just said, if the other person is so empathetic. I’ve noticed that my best friendships and best relationships last a long time with me, because I don’t mince words and don’t leave room for interpretation about how the other person understands it. And a statement like, you can pull off anything, that looks great, builds up self-confidence that then gets extremely torn down in the second step, when two or three others aren’t the way I am. So just plain brutally honest. And I actually believe that’s also the key to every human relationship. I’ve noticed that people value me precisely because I’m honest with my opinion or when asked for advice on certain topics, and know how to appreciate that I give authentic and honest feedback, and that’s why I’m involved in such circles, or part of these circles. Because the worst thing that could happen to me — and now the perspective shifts to the other person, the one who maybe tried not to hurt anyone there — is that I’m no longer part of this circle of trust in the future. That I ask at some point, well why don’t you ask me anything anymore, and they tell me, well, you don’t tell me your opinion anyway, you always just want to make sure the conversation ends gently, and that’s maybe another perspective that’s also valuable, because most people also appreciate an honest opinion, because that’s exactly why they’re asking.
Marc, gladly. I’d like to briefly thank you, dear Yasemin. That was par excellence, the answer you just gave, resolving a situation with humor. I feel like I’m in a rhetoric course right now, I’ll adopt that. Champions League level. Thank you so much. And to Sonja I’d like to say, about the hairdresser story, I have to share this with you all. We have two kinds of people, the very self-confident ones and the less self-confident ones. And that’s naturally where it also gets difficult for us, always in the evaluation of the person we’re talking to. Same situation. I say to my partner, she walks in through the door, hey, you were at the hairdresser. With less self-confidence she might reply, just say it if you don’t like it. I didn’t do anything, I just noticed she’d been at the hairdresser. And with a lot of self-confidence she says, hey, great, you noticed, I think that’s wonderful, you really pay attention to me. And that makes communication so difficult, because again and again we bring in our own evaluation. And Andreas, you also just brought in an evaluation, by saying that you’re mercilessly honest and gave an example of why that’s good, but at the same time you’re assuming all people react like you. And there’s always one or another among them who might actually be hurt. And I don’t know that. Those are just assumptions. And that’s why it’s always so hard to really find the absolutely, one hundred percent right strategy to change our behavior. But we can only escape that by being honest with ourselves and always behaving in a way that we first feel comfortable with ourselves. And whether the other person can handle that, they have to deal with that themselves too. But we’ll never find a strategy where we can achieve 100% satisfaction from the other person.
Yes, thank you so, so much. And I find that totally exciting, because you can clearly see here that there are very different strategies, ways of dealing with it, and that everyone handles it differently for themselves too. And I personally, for example, have had the experience that I get very far with diplomacy. And that has a lot to do with the personal experiences we’ve had too. For me that traces back to my childhood story. I’ve told this before. I grew up in a very, very strict household, with very little freedom, also against the backdrop of my cultural background, so to speak. And there were only two options. I’d had a traumatic experience beforehand through what happened with my sister. That is, she had to choose between the family or the man she’d fallen in love with. I could probably have gone down the same path in many places, really choosing “toughness,” but I saw what effects that also had on the family. And that wasn’t what corresponded to it. And at the same time my autonomy was very, very important to me — one of my highest values, by the way. And self-determination, I didn’t want to have that taken away from me or restricted either. So, relatively — well, in hindsight that’s clear now, of course. At the time I wasn’t consciously aware of it or didn’t realize it at all. But in hindsight, through reflection, I can say I obviously learned and worked out a lot of strategies for myself. And one of them is diplomacy. How do I manage to get it done, so to speak, through the back door? So with, for example, a kind of conscientious friendliness and so on. And in a way that also gives the other person the feeling, yes, I’ll go along with that, I’ll do that, or similar. Opening different doors, opening options, and always showing both sides the win-win situation, so to speak, to some extent. And looking at interests, looking at goals, considering what the benefit for the other person is, what would now be an argument that also helps the other person go along with it or similar, and not in the sense of manipulation, in the sense of deceiving the other person somehow or “spinning” something that doesn’t correspond to the truth, in quotes, but rather looking through this diplomatic lens and really taking the other person’s perspective and thinking about it and really looking at it here too. And yes, I can also understand aspects like, for example, such brutal honesty or something like that, that wouldn’t personally be my thing at all. I’m very honest, for example, when I’m commissioned to be brutally honest in certain contexts, where I also really earn money from it. But then there’s a clear assignment for that, and that’s where we’re at this feedback thing, so to speak, in quotes, often when someone else shares their joy with us or something and asks for our opinion. I don’t know if you know this or have experienced it, isn’t it not necessarily the case that they really want to know the honest opinion, but rather actually want to hear approval or something similar? And going in here with brutal honesty, I’d ask myself at that point, is that really goal-oriented? And then I take the path of diplomacy, because I don’t want to lie to anyone either, in the sense of, well, because they want to hear it now, I’ll just tell them what they want to hear — but rather to look through the diplomatic lens, so to speak. And that’s personally helped me a lot, that’s my personal experience in the past too. And interesting in this context, I also find what Tobias brought in in the chat. He wrote about that living room example earlier, that he would probably look for what he likes about the new living room and address that, even if he doesn’t like it overall. And that’s, for example, what I’d classify under diplomacy here. So picking that out, that would be a good example. And Ulla confirmed that too, that’s how I do it too. Just work out the things I like. A “like” or a “don’t like” isn’t an evaluation, she wrote. And so I’m curious what you all say to that, Sonja, Andreas.
Marc, gladly. I’d like to say something about that too, dear Yasemin. When I first looked for a coach, my partner said — when I came back, I can tell you this too — she said, yes, you can tell me that too. But I was looking for someone who is brutally honest. And I remember the first session, where my coach explained to me exactly that there are two kinds of coaches. Whether that’s true, I don’t know, because I only know the one. There’s the one you go to and say, ah, my wife doesn’t understand me and my boss, tell me all about it. Yes, that’s really terrible, they practically pat you on the head and say, well that’s just how it is, you’ve got a tough situation there, it’ll be fine, it’ll be fine. Or the kind of coach who is brutally honest and says, you shouldn’t be surprised about that. It’s completely clear that your boss is grumpy now, I would be too. With your behavior you won’t get anywhere like this, and if you keep going like this, your partner will leave you, and you should maybe already start placing personal ads. And I advise you, I’ll tell you this too, if you keep going like this, you’ll lose the new partner too. That’s brutally honest. And the advantage of a coach for me was simply that I give money to anyone who tells me what they really think and who, in that case, doesn’t protect me and basically says, now I’ll tell them what they want to hear, but instead tells me how I see the situation with my constructed reality. And that honesty then led to very, very strong change processes for me, which I would never have accepted like that from family or friends.
Yes, gladly, Sonja. I think really interesting aspects are being brought in here again, namely, in what environment — the word context came up earlier too, we’re very context-dependent beings — do we express ourselves? And I personally love this coaching situation, because that’s my absolute comfort zone, when someone pays me to be fully and completely honest and give that hard-hitting feedback while also being loving about it. Because that’s a combination that really helps other people grow. And you can’t always assume that in a normal private situation. And that sometimes gets in my way, because I sometimes bring my coach-self too much into my private life, and maybe then overstep a boundary here or there, because I’m not diplomatic enough. On the other hand, diplomacy is also something I personally believe we should use sparingly, in measured doses. Because if we’re always diplomatic, and with people who are very close to us, then we no longer have edges and corners, then we become profile-less, and that’s extremely unattractive and doesn’t really give the other person the opportunity to really connect with us either. That’s why my strategy would be to use diplomacy especially when it’s really about a lot, or when many people are affected. So if it’s either something big, like in politics, or like it was with you, Yasemin, with the family, that’s also a big thing, diplomacy is definitely appropriate there. But when it comes to closeness between people, friendships, where the other person just wants to feel this humanity, not perfection but something real, then I find diplomacy relatively out of place at that moment, and then I should try to be as honest as possible, even if it hurts a little. Thank you.
Yes, I’m absolutely with you there, and that really shows this context reference at this point. That means not always being the same, whatever strategy we consider good and apply for ourselves, so to speak, but always this context reference too, always seeing the person opposite me and acting accordingly. And you just said, if I were always diplomatic — yes, I can also open up very concrete examples, if that leads to me, for example, being conflict-avoidant or something, that would then, for example, lead to the other person constantly crossing boundaries. And if I don’t draw a line here, if I don’t show edges and corners, if I don’t address that something isn’t okay or similar, because I always go the diplomatic route, then that’s not goal-oriented at that point either. And that’s why — you said something nice, closeness and distance, and that’s exactly where we’re at these tensions. That means we also have dilemmas and tensions we move within, whether that’s private or professional, and that we simply become a bit aware of that. We can’t always resolve every situation, or there are also certain tensions we’re in where paradoxes really exist that can’t be resolved. That’s very, very exciting especially in the professional context too. Depending on which field you’re in, there are different tensions and dilemmas that you should really look at too. And especially in relation to future skills and so on, that’s a really, really essential aspect. It’s so hard for many to grasp, but there are quite classic tensions and dilemmas, and closeness and distance is, for example, a tension that exists in many professional contexts, that on one hand I need to establish closeness, for example to build trust, and on the other hand also need to go back into distance, to avoid crossing boundaries. And whenever the balance, in quotes, isn’t maintained — it’s quite alright for one or the other to be more at times — whenever the balance isn’t appropriate, then we experience, for example, boundary crossings or some blurring and so on, and from that conflict situations can arise, and and and, or other prices I might have to pay for it too. And that’s why it makes sense, both in the private and professional context, to really look very specifically at what tensions actually exist that I move within in different contexts, and to look at how I deal with certain situations, how others also deal with certain situations, so to go into reflection here too, into observation, to gain insights for myself from that, and then to be able to go into, for example, a behavior change or adjustment, provided I personally see the need for that. Marc, Sonja, what do you say to that?
What comes to mind for me in this context, dear Yasemin, is that I once heard at an authors’ breakfast with you, I think it was with this agent, I’m not entirely sure, that the coach — and now I’m getting to it — a coach offers me the opportunity, he holds out a coat to me, and we all play different roles. And when I’m with my coach, I have the opportunity, in a session, so within an hour, to switch roles without the other person getting angry. I can take on different roles and perspectives and try that out. And when I try on this coat, I can immediately find out, how does that feel? How does it feel with this coat? How does it feel with this role behavior? And that really helps enormously to find out again, to be honest with ourselves about how it would feel if we behaved in a certain way or if we used this or that strategy, and once we’ve honestly known and honestly answered for ourselves where we feel most comfortable, then that at least helps with the insight of which steps and which path we want to and will take in the future.
Yes, thank you so much. Sonja, did you want to follow up here too?
What Marc just said definitely helps too, that we — I’ve forgotten now what I wanted to say, that can’t be. I need a moment to think. It’s just gone. Give me a small moment. Sorry.
Yes, gladly, no problem at all. Thank you so, so much. And thank you too, Ulli, for sharing in the chat. Quickly googled — diplomats are masters of listening, but also great at getting by without many words when necessary, and yet addressing everything. I find that cool. A cool definition. I somehow recognize myself in that too. Yes, Sonja, did it come back to you?
It came back to me, yes. Namely, the situation with the coach also has this great advantage, that a coachee can be sure that the coach won’t somehow blurt it out, but can hold onto what they hear. And we can’t assume that in normal social situations, that if we just slip into a coat, the other person will handle that well too and not react completely unexpectedly, so that we then have to go into a counter-regulation, but rather we can really try ourselves out in this coach situation. And that makes the big difference, I think, compared to conversations with friends. Because there we offer a framework that provides safety to sniff into completely different roles and different emotional states. What’s it like when I’m honest? What’s it like when I allow a certain thought and follow it along? What’s it like when I really honestly answer a question for myself and even say it out loud, and maybe can even stay silent in the moment, when I don’t have to expect the other person to interrupt me immediately and I have to react to that again — and I think that’s exactly what makes these professional coaching situations, and that helps people become more authentic, be more with themselves, feel themselves, and get to know themselves in the first place. Because in a normal conversation situation, others often don’t give us the time at all to feel how that would feel. Do I maybe want to go a different way in the future? Do I want to communicate differently in the future? And since we can’t please everyone anyway, it’s most sensible if we try to please ourselves, because then at least one person is satisfied with the result. Thank you.
Yes, thank you so, so much. And I think that also has something to do with this. Theoretically, from my perspective, this would also be possible in the private environment. Only often it’s the case that in a private context we’re talking about something, and then we suddenly get into such a situation. No clear framework conditions are discussed there. No agreements are made or similar. So the setting is completely different, is completely different. It’s not prepared, which of course, in a coaching situation, when it’s connected to an assignment, is different, the entry point is already different. That means beforehand it’s discussed, for example, that there are different methods, that there are intervention techniques and so on. And here it can be “negotiated,” in quotes, at the very start, made transparent at all. What’s wanted or not wanted, for example, also in the sense of helpful or not helpful? Of course we don’t necessarily do all that in the everyday situation with friends and acquaintances; instead we’re sitting at the kitchen table. I’m exaggerating this a bit now, talking about something, and suddenly we’re in some situation where we’re in the feedback role, feedback-giver role or something. And here the question arises: did I even get the assignment for that, and does the other person even want that? And if it then becomes uncomfortable for the other person, in quotes, it can very quickly tip over in the situation, and that’s why it’s always important to go in with the corresponding awareness and also to check whether this is really appropriate and context-related, fitting at that point, or whether I’m now overstepping the mark, so to speak, because I never got this assignment from the other person at all. And there we’re always allowed to hold ourselves accountable a bit, so to speak, check that and handle it sensitively too. Even if we might master the techniques and similar, it’s not wanted by everyone and everywhere accordingly, and respecting that and handling it with appreciation, I think, is also a really, really important aspect. And then there’s another point too, I think. I experience that often too, and I’m not upset about it or anything. I definitely have people in my circle of acquaintances who, for example, wouldn’t want to be coached by me, because we’re so close in other respects and that’s so vulnerable at that point, that this closeness is simply too close, and they don’t want that. And then there are others in my environment who want exactly that, to be coached by me, for this very reason, because they say, nothing better could happen to me, and I have this trust in you, and that’s why I want to look at this exactly with you. And here you see how different people are, and both are totally legitimate and totally understandable for me, and everyone gets to decide that for themselves, and we’re allowed to handle that with appreciation and respect too. So much for my thoughts and experiences again. And with that I’d like to move into today’s closing round. I’m also looking forward to tomorrow, by the way. That continues with self-knowledge and humility, and I think the aspect I just opened up, as a closing comment in quotes, is already heading in the direction of humility too, possibly. So definitely also from the professional role, from how we relate to other people and so on and so forth, to also look at this aspect of humility, and what the whole thing has to do with self-knowledge, I’m really looking forward to that too. So tomorrow at 8am again here at Deep Talk, for anyone who has time and wants to join. And yes, now I’m curious about your highlights from the room, Marc, Sonja.
You just described two kinds of people, and both are right, dear Yasemin, because we always find what we’re looking for. And one more really important aspect — we don’t lose authenticity by asking others, how do you see this, what’s your strategy. It took me a long time before I got myself a coach, because I always thought I’m strong and don’t need anyone telling me to do this and that. Or I confused a coach with a psychologist, who I thought would help me because maybe I’m afraid of phones or something else. And I never saw the coach as someone who asks me the right questions that really lead me onto new roads. Thanks for listening.
Yes, thank you so, so much. Sonja.
So what I definitely take away from today is that we’re context-dependent beings, and that it’s very, very important that we’re mindful of which context we’re currently in, and that there’s no uniform strategy, but that we should always adapt it individually if we want to be with ourselves and be doing well and also maintain our relationships well, keep them healthy. Thank you.
Yes, thank you so, so much. And in that sense it’s always a kind of juggling, so to speak, at this point. I always find that image very nice. That means it’s always about weighing things up, reflecting, taking a look, and always making decisions for yourself again. And yes, that’s context-dependent, that’s individual, and that also has something to do with who I’m talking to. That means there’s no per-se right or wrong here, but it makes sense to always go into reflection, to make corrections when needed, or elsewhere to keep something too, because you might have done well with it. And all of that is ultimately legitimate too. And in that sense I hope there were various impulses in there for you that you can simply take away too, and let one or the other resonate a bit further, and then continue tomorrow morning again at 8am with the room title “Self-Knowledge and Humility.” In that sense, I wish you all the best, and I’m looking forward to tomorrow morning at 8am at Deep Talk. Until then, ciao!
