Brain Food for Pioneering Spirits: Does creative thinking mean inventing something no one has ever seen — or just recombining what already exists? Dr. Yasemin Yazan, Marc, Jürgen and Sabine trace creativity from a face mask reinvented as a 2020 bestseller to two Lake Garda towns ten kilometers apart that couldn’t feel more different, landing on a shared insight from three completely different angles…
Note: This session was recorded live in German as part of the Deep Talk Club, so the video above is German-language audio only. What follows is an English translation of the conversation, lightly edited for readability — the back-and-forth between the moderator and participants is preserved, but the original timestamps and speaker names have been left out.
A very good morning I wish you. Today we continue with creative thinking. What actually lies behind it? So what actually is creative thinking? That’s what we want to engage with today. I’m curious what you say about the topic, bring in your first thoughts on that first, so we can then work our way along together a bit, and just see what comes up together in the exchange this morning too. And here of course we have another pair of terms again. On one hand thinking, on the other hand the topic of creativity in this context. And so I’m actually curious to look at, what is creativity at all? What does creative thinking then mean in this context? And so you’re all warmly invited to join and share your first thoughts on the topic. Again briefly the note, we record the room the entire time, and the whole thing gets published later too. That means, anyone who joins is automatically agreeing to that. Then we have three small room rules. A profile picture where you’re recognizable, first and last name, and at least one sentence in the bio. And anyone who doesn’t want that recorded for whatever reason, or can’t speak right now, can of course also gladly use the chat. With that I’m just curious what the first impulses on the topic are. We already have the first request to speak. A very good morning, dear Marc. What do you say to the topic?
Good morning. I have to briefly go back to yesterday’s room too, and first of all good morning to all of you. And at this point I’d also like to ask you to actively participate, and I’ll also tell you why. Actively participating would also be writing a chat or message, because we’re in a reflection room after all, and we can all only benefit, because we too say things that maybe don’t correspond to the truth, or that aren’t quite right anymore today, and that’s exactly what I’d like to briefly come back to. Yesterday, with the fervor of conviction, I fell victim to the expert trap. And specifically I told you, and I now also know why — you hear news the whole time about where we’re losing touch everywhere, and after a phone call with Jürgen it became clear to me what exactly happened to me there. We don’t just see what we want to see, we also hear what we want to hear. And I told you yesterday that Germany lost touch with the automobile industry because we’re exiting LIDAR technology. That’s laser technology needed to make autonomous driving possible. I fell victim to the expert trap because I took this information from a press release, and now not the tabloid with the four letters, but a business magazine. And then, because I want to hear what I want to hear, I didn’t question this expert at all, but got into the emotionality. There we go again, we’re losing touch there too. That surely can’t be, that we’re now exiting this key technology too. After a phone call with my very smart son, whom I’m very grateful to, he said, dad, you probably overlooked something there, or didn’t understand it correctly, or didn’t perceive it correctly. And specifically, this exact company I mentioned, that they possibly exit this technology for financial reasons, because they see no profit in it, which is completely wrong. Exactly this company I meant works on camera-based systems, and by now there are experts who say that radar-based systems in connection with camera-based systems are even more effective, or also fulfill the same technical requirements, to be able to use the technology to bring a self-driving car onto the road. And that’s why this reflection room is so important with all topics, even if you don’t want to speak, and even if it’s only in the chat. I too can say something that, not knowingly to mislead you, doesn’t correspond to the truth, but simply because I want to hear what I hear, because I want to see what I see, and because I simply lack information. And I’d like to correct that at this point.
Yes, wonderful. Thank you so, so much. And then let’s directly connect with that to the aspect of creative thinking. So what is creativity at all, and what does creative thinking mean, dear Marc?
Exactly. Sorry for the topic deviation, but isn’t it important in the reflection room that you also apply what’s learned? And I belong to that too. For creativity I’d like to start with the following words coming to mind. Creativity is connecting information, generating from what’s already known toward innovation. Those would be my first thoughts.
Would you like to repeat that really slowly again please? Connecting old things?
Yes, and then I have examples afterward too. Creativity is, for me, a connecting of information, no matter what kind. That can be image information, heard information, read information, and then the generation of new ideas. And there I open the bracket, already-known, so already-known, not inventing anything new. Not necessarily inventing something that didn’t exist before, but simply connecting known things into something new. And through that you also go — that of course has the advantage for a company, that it can thereby produce new innovations again.
Yes wonderful, thank you so, so much. And that means, on one hand the connecting of old things. The question that arises for me first now, because you just brought in the term innovation too, is whether creativity always simultaneously means innovation too, so the connecting of old things then also always with the goal, so to speak, of forming something new, or can it also just be the connecting of old things exclusively without — so is it then always automatically something new and also automatically innovation, or can it also just simply be the connecting of old things without something new arising? So here I’d like to look more closely again. Maybe you’d like to add directly again, and then we already have a request to speak, and then I’ll bring in Jürgen right away too.
Yes, that’s this complexity we keep noticing. I wouldn’t exclude something like that. Everything is correct. Creativity — I just started with that, creativity leads to innovation. It doesn’t have to lead to innovation, but that’s exactly like thinking and reflecting. Both include each other, and both can stand together, but also stand individually. And then finally, how do you get there, how does the whole thing work? That’s simple, how that works in our head. For me it works like this, always constantly questioning the status quo, so the now, and exploring new approaches in the process. You can learn that, you can really train that. Creativity can be trained. You can’t say I’m not creative either, that’s not offered. Creativity is, for me, also a thinking process, and thinking too you can learn and practice, and I too long sat on the belief that I’m not creative like others, but you can train creativity with your head.
Yes wonderful, thank you so, so much for the first impulses. Let’s see what Jürgen says to that. A very good morning, dear Jürgen.
Good morning, dear Yasemin, hello Marc and everyone else in the room. The trigger was, does it always have to be something new, and I had the comedic situation yesterday that, when you announced this topic, I did a kind of brainstorming, just letting everything that shot into my head come out, so a typical brain… a typical brainwriting. And I’d like to briefly sketch that for you, and it also builds a bridge to this question, does it always have to be something innovative? First on my list is the topic itself. And with the topic I made a note that today we’re talking about creativity in connection with thinking. We’re not talking about creativity in acting. That’s the first thing. So I then disciplined myself in my further inspirations to really focus on thinking. And what logically follows then is first, what is creativity, but there I’ll put a check mark next to the remarks dear Marc already made, and just leave those standing in the room. And as you know, I like to proceed on one hand from the terminology and then especially also from the counter-position. And I asked myself, what’s the counter-position, the antagonist to creativity, and my, here it says, my impulse, my first offer in front of me was destructiveness. So tearing down, demolishing, eliminating, breaking, destroying. Destructive behavior means something to everyone, I think. But then, away from behavior toward the thinking, so with regard explicitly to the mental, to the thinking, I came to the conclusion that this tearing down, demolishing, can even be extremely creative, namely that we tear down old thought patterns, old presets, theoretics, rules of thumb, beliefs. So destructiveness can also be creativity, not just constructive, newly creating, in my view, mind you in the mental, but also find its essential use in destructiveness, in destroying. That was the first aha-effect. And then I asked myself, what’s now the counter-pole to creativity, because if I know the counter-pole — to justify briefly why I’m subject to this fast manner — if I know the counter-pole, then I have a clue on one hand, where I stand, or what I have to do to get from not-creative to creative. And then I came, and that took a bit longer, it wasn’t a flash anymore but a creative pondering, to conformity. So, if you can maybe take such a keyword, alignment, orientation, orientation in thinking, and there was the flash for me. I always see thinking causally connected with terms, and thus with language. And especially in our time, if I look at the development of recent times — though it certainly also arose in other phases, but currently it’s very grave — there’s vehement talk about, I’ll now say quite deliberately, a violation of language, of normal language use, and a bridge is also built to our thinking. So the means of standardizing language with the effect of standardizing thinking, that’s well known by now. And so that was then this second aha-effect, that I say, okay, in this respect too, with regard to the negative position, this distinction between creativity in thinking and in acting is justified. Namely in acting, and there I’m looking at Marc now, you can certainly speak from experience more than me there, in acting this is the typical example, the Germans invented it and the Chinese copied it. That’s copying, that’s imitating, that’s replicating. That’s the opposite of creativity in acting. In thinking, for me it’s the linguistic, and thus also connected, standardization, acceptance of what my environment has thought up or accepted as norms, and the use from that — because everything has to have a use — is that I have this feeling of belonging. So, and now I’ll stop, because that led then, but I’d like to say this briefly, because I’m on the way, that led then for me to the further question, if I now know that, can I learn that, and which preconditions do I have to fulfill to get from non-creativity to creativity. Another insane topic again, and thanks for your patience listening to me, dear ones.
Yes, thank you so, so much, and here I’d like to first directly ask, to ensure, also with regard to understanding, whether I could follow that completely. I haven’t gotten the bridge yet. You started with the brainwriting, so to speak, and considered what the opposite is, if I understood that correctly, and first came to destructive thinking, but then afterward came to other terms. Maybe you can briefly show the bridge here again, because I still couldn’t understand exactly what you mean, how you built this bridge.
Yes, as I said, thanks for the question, dear Yasemin. The destructiveness was, if I may say so, that was the flash of my System 1, so this emotional, associative brain, saying creative. I can’t tell you where that comes from, but that’s why I call it a flash. It was this inspiration to say, constructive, destructive, because creative is positively occupied for me as a term. That’s probably the decisive point, and destructive is negatively connoted for me anyway. So, and then I had to realize, and that’s why that was my first aha-effect, that destructive in the sense of thinking can well be positive, because through the destruction and tearing-down, for example, of unconscious bias or heuristics, it does advance us further with regard to our thinking, so is positive. And from that resulted then, I now have no counter-part anymore, I have no antagonist, so I have to look for another one. And that’s why I came to this conformity, so this acceptance, this more or less tacit acceptance of norms and expectations from outside, whether that’s from the family, or from our environment, from the work environment, or however you want to take it, that I then say, that’s actually what kills creativity, because I fit in knowingly, willingly, consciously, unconsciously, yes, into something, without also having the will, the motivation, to develop new perspectives, to jump over my own shadow, and thus become creative. Did I provide a bit more clarity with that?
Yes, absolutely. Thank you so, so much. And probably it was hard for me to follow, so to speak, not because you expressed yourself unclearly, but because I of course also had many thought flashes in parallel with that. I built a different bridge and went in via the question in parallel, if it had been such that you’d held onto as a thesis that the opposite, so to speak, is destructive thinking, then I opened up the opposite of destructive thinking again, and then thought, the opposite of destructive thinking would be constructive thinking for me. And that would then, in derivation, mean in turn that constructive thinking would be equated with creative thinking. And then I would have gone directly into this question for myself too. Is constructive thinking then the same as creative thinking, and would have come to a no as the answer, to then go into search mode again. So I find that totally exciting, to also see, while you also tell it that way, what thinking processes then also get set in motion in ourselves too, in the sense of checking and so on. And so I’m totally grateful for that. We had different approaches, but to arrive at a similar result, so to speak, at that point. I find that quite exciting too. Would you like to add briefly again before we bring in Marc again too?
Well I’m delighted, dear Yasemin. I won’t say more about that now, because I think it’s the royal path, that you fertilize each other through two different views, so to speak, in quotation marks, and in the end arrive at a common result and an insight. The word — because I’m now really consciously saying insight — and that’s really, I find, a great thing. Thank you.
Yes, wonderful. Thank you so, so much. And if we say, if we hold onto that first, what you said, so to speak, the opposite of creative thinking is conforming thinking then in this context, so thinking in the same direction. You then also brought in the term “norms” again. You could then maybe also say, creative thinking would then, so if we also bring in this term “norms” right now, the thought occurred to me of thinking “out of the box,” so to speak. Marc, maybe you’d like to add here again to what’s been said so far.
I’m laughing all over my face. Now comes a third perspective with the same insight. I underline everything, dear Jürgen, that you said. I underline everything you said, dear Yasemin. For me in my head it just happened like this: new thought patterns, brilliant, new thought patterns. Then you said, the old gets destroyed, destruction is constructive. There, through my motivation that I want to pay attention to how we talk with each other, only the word destroy — I underline the word destroy. I personally just had a problem with the word destroy, because that’s so brutal, destroy, I immediately think of violence, and I’d just express it differently. I mean the same as you. I think it’s important how I talk with myself, and I want to talk positively with myself, and I’d leave everything standing as is. I’d just, for myself, formulate destroying old things to find new things the way I said it at the start. Not destroying old things, but bringing old things together anew, which then, as a consensus, is exactly the same result again as you also said. Brilliant. Here the third view of things. Three approaches and three same results in this case. So it can’t go better. New thought patterns, by destroying old ones or bringing them together anew. Thanks.
Wonderful. Thank you so, so much. And there we notice too what that partly does with us, depending on how terms then also get associated, so how they’re connoted by us, through the experiences we’ve made in the past, and how we occupy terms for ourselves accordingly, and correspondingly can then also develop, for example, feelings of disturbance at that point. Great!
And also replace them again with other terms, but obviously meaning the same thing, so to speak, in quotation marks, just choosing a different term to escape this feeling of disturbance. So you also see that this is again also emotionally charged here too. Great, we have the emotions in there again too. Jürgen, would you like to briefly comment on that too, before we look at what we now do with that?
Well I’d just repeat myself, dear Yasemin, what I said before. I think this has taken the absolute royal path, how this topic has developed now, and I think we’re at an extraordinarily good point. I don’t want to become too suggestive now, but at the point — what causally connects creativity with thinking is, when I now reflect, or no, when I think about it, not reflect, when I think about which preconditions must — and I only have as an initial the feeling, it can well be just a feeling, Marc’s favorite topic, an emotion, that I say, I look at my environment and determine, actually I’m not that creative. How do I get to determine now, and that’s the really exciting part for me, how do I get to determine, am I creative, do I have the potency for creativity, have I just not discovered it yet or brought it to life, or what do I have to be able to accomplish to be creative? So that’s a really big question mark for me. Sorry if I went a bit too far ahead of the topic there now.
No, wonderful, I find that good. So let’s pick that up, exactly these aspects, and see which answers we might find together on that too. So gladly again, Marc, Jürgen, what are your first starting points, so to speak, to answer these questions too? Gladly, Marc.
Yes, I can report from my life experience there. And specifically, how do I come to think I wasn’t creative? I was the whole time. I grew up in a family and had a very creative father. I didn’t perceive him as creative. But my father was also in the fashion industry. It was confirmed to me again and again how creative my father is. Both in the professional context from his colleagues, from his employees, from competitors, from my mother. At the same time it was also always confirmed to me that I’m not creative, and that I have no creative approaches at all. That took really, really long, until I reflected and said, what actually makes him a creative person? How does he do that? How does he work? And when I travel today, for me a big part of creativity — I haven’t changed, but we all know, the word just occurred to me — eyes open in traffic, I’d like to replace that with eyes open in life’s traffic. And when I’m out and about and traveling today, for me the biggest gift of traveling is simply noticing, noticing outside my industry, what other industries do, how do they combine old things anew, how do they generate new business from that, and I can only tell you, maybe I’ll come back to that more, that this eyes-open-in-life’s-traffic helped me survive the year 2020. Without this ability I’d acquired, I don’t know how I’d have gotten through the Covid time, because I saw things that had existed for a really, really long time, and implemented them anew, just very briefly, and specifically I’d like to thank a Spaniard who invented the multifunctional scarf in 1991. I first became aware of that in 2014. And then I remembered it in 2020, when I just heard the term, we need a mouth-nose covering. That took a few hours, until I said, mouth-nose covering, that’s nothing other than a buff. And this mouth-nose covering gave me, in the year 2020, the best business year ever, with really 55 percent revenue plus, because everyone wanted this scarf. And the creativity was also just, I didn’t invent anything new, I just remembered already-known things, old information newly put together, and a buff now sold as a mouth-nose covering, or protection, well it’s not protection, so as a mouth-nose covering, and I’m very, very grateful that I’d gotten into this way of thinking, because I don’t know how I would have gotten through the year 2020 outside this way of thinking.
Yes wonderful, thank you so, so much, and to come back to this example with your father again, with regard to answering the question, how do I get to thinking I’m not creative or am creative? On the abstract level, so to speak, terms just occurred to me now in this context. So a comparison obviously took place, and then an evaluation. And as a further factor, it occurred to me that it could also be an attribution made from outside. So that we didn’t compare ourselves and make an evaluation, but heard from outside, you’re creative or you’re not creative. And that, for example, was simply adopted, regardless of which direction, without questioning it critically again. Do you have any further aspects that ultimately come to this, to this conclusion, so to speak, how to provide an answer to the question, am I creative or not? Marc, Jürgen.
Gladly, Jürgen. Yes, and specifically let me expand the arc a bit, how I approached the question. There are certain creativity methods, so this connection with regard to the question, can I learn creativity, there are certain methodical approaches for that, and also comprehensive consulting approaches on the market. So via this anchor I approached this topic. And for me there are three essential basic preconditions, dear ones, that come together there. On one hand, with regard to answering the question, am I creative, am I creative, yes or no? And if no, or not to a corresponding extent, how do I get there, and these three terms, the first is a new term for me, that I’d now throw in, is fantasy, and specifically connected for me with fantasy is that with fantasy I also design a change of perspective, a completely new virtual new structure of thinking for myself, and causally connected with this fantasy is, in my view, really important to make the process valuable too, also an imaginative power, that what my fantasy now, what my fantasy thinks up, is also implementable. So basically, if you will, the anchor is an idea about it, yes it could work, and what’s connected with that again is a certain use I want to have, because why should I think about whether I’m creative or not, if I’m doing well. I’m sitting here on the sofa, I’m doing well, I have everything I want, why should I become creative. So I must, in this fantasy, in my view, mind you in my view, in this fantasy and in the structuring of a new thinking, also have a target quantity, where I want to go, and that has to be qualified with a minimum, that it’s also implementable. So and now let me say, to round off, what’s the essential basic material for that, the fuel of all that, and there I’m back at one of my favorite theories. That’s knowledge. I can’t, from nothing, that’s my conviction, not develop fantasies from nothing, but fantasies attach themselves, in my view, to something, to some circumstance, to a status I know, that I’m aware of. And that offers the basis for this new thinking based on fantasy, and that’s what actually builds the bridge to what Marc said right at the beginning, this building new bridges, so definitely also not reinventing what already exists, but connecting it anew. Concepts that exist in various facets and directions, suddenly recognizing in fantasy, there’s a creative connection. And, my dears, that’s in the end nothing other — I’ll say this now for the last time, that’s generally my personal opinion, no claim to any general validity — that’s for me a specific form of intelligence. And that ultimately leads, if you were now just to ask me, following the use to the aspect of education, namely to self-realization and to self-determination. That’s, for me, the big bracket for today’s topic. And that’s gigantic. Thanks for listening.
Yes, wonderful. Thank you so, so much. Maybe to mention already at this point, we’ll definitely also have soon, sometime, I don’t know exactly when that’ll come, but we definitely also have the aspect of imagination in a room again too, so imaginative power, in a room where we’ll go deeper into that again too. I’m already looking forward to that too, and I find it so nice how this connection always gets opened up a few days in advance, so to speak, too. I also found it interesting here again, different approaches to thinking, different paths, similar results in what comes out. Even while I said earlier, for example, on the aspect of precondition, let me pick it up again. It can be that it happens via comparison and evaluation, via attribution that was then adopted, whether creative or not creative is completely irrelevant there. And while I was finished with the word contribution, to let you speak again, I already had the approach at the same time. And experience possibly also plays a role here then too. And with experience — I find it so nice that you then continued with knowledge, so to speak. There I’m also — we’d talked about various forms, or kinds of knowledge, so to speak. And there experiential knowledge falls in there too. So great. Marc, would you like to add again too?
Yes, I’d gladly like to bring in another example, because otherwise it always gets too abstract for me and I’m not simply convinced by that. I talked about this with Jürgen yesterday too. The example is, a bicycle, we all know. We know a bicycle means mobility. And now comes what, what, what. Now I use the word bicycle and mobility with a new — now we do brainstorming. And now I use the word bicycle and mobility and bring in a new word, lifestyle feeling, and this lifestyle feeling, if you ever have the opportunity to go to Lake Garda. And for me Torbole is one of the hotspots of creativity. That hits me like a club, when I walk through Torbole. Not even that Torbole is the most beautiful place at Lake Garda, it’s beautiful. But what these people did there, Torbole is only five, or, I don’t know, ten, fifty kilometers from Malcesine. And what the people in Torbole did, simply through this fantasy and through the creativity, to create a lifestyle feeling. You have completely different people in Torbole than ten kilometers further. And the people in Torbole, so these businesspeople in Torbole, understood the word bicycle. And not just connect it with mobility, but with a lifestyle feeling. And it’s incredible how two places lying next to each other, at a distance of ten kilometers, can’t be more different. The entire town of Torbole at Lake Garda has developed so that they live through this lifestyle feeling. That means, there’s one bike shop after another. They specialized in all the surfers, all the sailors, all the athletes, and all the hikers. The same thing happens in Aarkopp. Who joined in there? It’s not just the bike shops. It’s the hotels. In the hotels there are bike repair workshops. There are bike washing machines. And the entire place is a rejuvenation of Lake Garda. And where you really get hit with a club, ten kilometers further in Malcesine, you see the typical German, whom I also belong to, who likes to drink cappuccino, everything’s fine, where the menu is made with pictures, if you don’t know Italian, everything’s okay, has to exist. But what’s so fascinating for me is how places, 15 kilometers apart — don’t hold me to it — can’t be more different, because a complete community agreed and knew, through this new lifestyle feeling we’re creating there, which already existed, this connection of sport and this realization that there are also people who don’t just go on vacation to drink coffee and eat, but that there are people who have fun with movement. Exactly that is our target group, exactly them we address. And exactly there an entire region, in this sense an entire town, engages. And for me that’s, when I drive through there, always a realization of what you can do even though you have the same infrastructure. Everything’s the same, there are the same people. But how, through creative ideas, through a community, through the exchange, you can create something completely new. And bicycles have existed in Germany too. Only the new thing is just, recognizing a business idea there, recognizing a target group. And the people didn’t invent anything new. That’s what Jürgen said. They just brought together already-known things. And now I’ll make it shorter. I experience the same thing always in the Netherlands. My favorite shop there is the Bookstore. There’s a bookstore there. And if I were to tell you, what do books have to do with coffee? Well, I made an article about that on LinkedIn too. They also offer barista shops, offer coffee and cake. In these bookstores, students sit and read. There are coffee corners, there are garden corners. If they don’t sell a book, they sell coffee and cake. Of course there are cafés in Germany too, and there are also individual bookstores that thought, come on, if books don’t sell, coffee always sells. And if coffee doesn’t sell, reading also always happens. And that’s, for me, connecting old with new. And the knot I had in my head with the topic of creativity was, or is also, that I thought, how creative, how am I supposed to invent something new that doesn’t exist at all yet? I don’t know that. How am I supposed to come up with that? No, the art is simply bringing already-known things together anew, selling that as a new lifestyle feeling. And you don’t have to invent something completely new. So that I don’t now immediately think of the flying car, I could do that too. But many things already exist, I just don’t see them.
Yes, thank you so, so much. And a question that actually still occupies me in this context is, if we say it’s basically bringing old things together anew, and something innovative can arise from that too, the question arises for me whether that maybe also explains why many innovations, for example, are rather accidental discoveries, so to speak. And then the question also arises at the same time, though, what role fantasy and imagination now play — but as I said, we’ll get to that topic again too, separately in a room — for innovations, for example. Because there it’s not from pure old-combining, but maybe even started with fantasy, that you, for example, absolutely had the idea, how can it be possible that we can also fly like birds? And then, so to speak, only then — that means, the direction possibly changes, from where we come, whether we just apply creativity techniques to reach a target quantity. But the target quantity doesn’t necessarily always have to be innovation in that sense. So developing something innovative, developing a certain innovative thing, is already the target quantity to newly compose something, but not necessarily that an innovation results from it. Or whether I already have an idea of the innovation as a quantity, so in which direction it should go, to then apply creativity techniques, for example, to already act in this direction. So maybe you can also add right away again. I’d first like to bring in Sabine, because obviously there was a point where she also wanted to add. Dear Sabine, a very good morning.
Yes, a very good morning. I had a bit of network trouble at the beginning, and that’s why I didn’t hear anything at first. But indeed the market just triggered me a bit. Several examples you gave that I can well imagine. For example Torbole and Malcesine. I know both. But I was always there with my parents in the past. And at Torbole it was always such that people stood on the beach, looked at the wind, and when the wind blew, they shot into the water. So I’ll say, did you already have the right target group there somewhere to work further on, which probably wasn’t there in the other direction? If I remember correctly, a bit mountainous, that’s of course also a bit different environment. And I’d like to speak about that too, about the environment. It also has to be the environment that lends itself to that. That gives that. Because I was at an event this week, where they presented the mobility concept of the city of Mannheim. I didn’t have much to say, I just listened, because it just interested me. But there were also many people there who were very interested and it concerns them a lot. There were people from trade there, there were logisticians, there were companies settled at the port. And then this bike concept came up, which is certainly great. Only if I want to tear down a two-lane bridge and don’t yet have the right alternative, and this two-lane bridge leads indirectly out of the port, there was already a deep sigh among some. And then isn’t that too much creativity? Doesn’t there also have to be somewhere a continuous thing…
Don’t I have to have the target group? Does the environment have to fit? I’m the last one to ride a bike. I always rode a bike in the city. In the Stadtsee too. That’s now, for example, there, they took away a lane. That’s now a bike lane. Almost no one rides on the one bike lane. The other is permanent traffic jam. So, I also have to think a bit further, does that fit into the environment? And this thing with the environment is probably also the point you just said, Yasemin. Many startups have settled here. Let’s take, for example, in the USA, in Silicon Valley. Many settled there, more settle there. And it’s the same with startup centers. Or when I’m in Berlin, where I find many there, then more happens there too. And I think more happens there because they feel comfortable, because they have the environment, because they network. So on the topic of creativity… I mean, I can also do that alone, if I go to the carpenter. But the environment certainly helps me a lot there too. That was my contribution. Thank you. I wish you all the best.
Yes wonderful, thank you so, so much. And possibly this aspect of fantasy and imagination also plays an even much bigger role than we’re aware of at first glance in this context, if we don’t look more closely again. And specifically, I once, I don’t know if that was here at Deep Talk or whether that was at the talk, at some point also pointed out that, because you just picked up USA and startups and such too, classical market research also does that, but especially in the USA, in Silicon Valley, it’s also very, very well known that quite often, with new developments that exist, there really are so-called, I’ll now call them showrooms, where behavior, so to speak, also gets analyzed, to be able to decide, based on that, whether you can already go to market with certain products or not, because it’s also about acceptance. That means, those are various factors that come together here now. So on one hand, now with the example of the bridge, the imagination. So how does that develop then? Then we’ve also had, in many rooms, things like developments like ChatGPT or similar. There the observation, for example, is also very often that we really also demonstrate certain things on the live system, to make it experienceable at all, and not just talk about it, because otherwise this imagination, in quotation marks, is often still lacking in many places, to be able to imagine what that exactly means and how that exactly works. And only through these aha-moments, also working on the system and showing how that works, does the curiosity then also get awakened at the same time, or does this imagination actually even set in, for one person or another, to actually look more closely into the depths here too, or to become curious and continue engaging with the topics. While we just talk about it, that’s often, for many, partly too far away to really be able to follow, what we’re actually — so we presumably talk about the same thing, but argue differently maybe or such. But on closer inspection, it becomes quickly clear in many places that the — that imagination isn’t necessarily always given, and through the doing, so to speak, first for one person or another, the approach to this imagination even has to be established in the first place. And then this rethinking. That’s then another point that connects here too. That means, even if I’ve then, if I’ve realized that, or also have the imagination, also this “am I already ready, or is my environment also already ready to take this step?” And even if you look at, for example, product developments or such in the past, you can also see very, very nicely there, if products come to market too early, it can be, for example, that a product maybe also isn’t adopted by the broad masses, because it’s simply not the right time for it. And a few years later, or a few months later, depending on how the developments are then accordingly, and the experiences that get made, and the readiness, so to speak, to accept that, then it can be that exactly the same product simply gets brought to market with a time delay, because some predecessors, some approaches already took place in that direction, which got adopted. So that intermediate steps are needed, so to speak, to then also let this product be adopted on the market. So I find quite exciting aspects that come up here again too, also with regard to, can I learn that? So what are actually the preconditions for that? Because creativity techniques per se I can of course look up somewhere and just copy. But does that actually put me in the position, so to speak, to actually also think creatively, would be a question that maybe can be derived from that here too. Jürgen, gladly.
Yes, thanks for this bridge-building, namely that shouldn’t, in my view, be disregarded, completely correct, what in my view Sabine also addressed. Because this knowledge about what I postulated here to say, that’s an essential precondition at all to get into creativity. That also includes that the use from a creativity in thinking must also have a follower, to actually realize this use, namely the creativity in acting. And I said that quite deliberately at the beginning of this room. And I also made an effort to keep this restriction, that we only talk about the creativity of thinking today. Well knowingly though, to add to that now, that — and that’s now my aha-effect — that I say, yes, that’s also one of the essential preconditions, or requirements, I have to fulfill with the creativity of thinking, that I please have to think about the use. And there we’re at this topic from Sabine. Does the environment fit that? Can I — the use that I connect with my fantasy, with my imagination, with the new product, with the new methodology in a company for example, can it, or does it then — does it arrive in my environment, does it get accepted? And does it have a use not just for me, but for those affected by this creativity? I can withdraw and can say, yes, I was creative. I did something for my self-determination, for my, for my self-understanding. Check mark, that’s important, absolutely important. But if the fantasy goes in a direction of finding a continuation in acting, namely I’ll repeat, to lead a project in a product or in another methodology, then I necessarily have to also keep the second stage in view, namely to let creative thinking be followed by creative acting too. Thanks that I could position that again. I have to say goodbye now, because I’m on my way. I wish you a weekend stolen from paradise, and thank you for all these contributions, and again, dear Yasemin, for a hammer-great topic. Thank you and ciao, bye.
Yes wonderful, thank you so, so much, a nice weekend to you too. And yes, and great that you also divided that into these stages again, because if we now look at it from pure methodology, so to speak, with regard to creativity, that’s also the precondition, to say, don’t go into evaluation yet, don’t look yet at what that means, but one of the preconditions is actually also, to actually be able to be creative, to first actually collect quite different aspects, without going into evaluation, because we classically do that with many topics, that we always go into evaluation too quickly, and thereby maybe also “slow ourselves down,” in quotation marks, but actually approach it with a certain openness, and then in a second stage go again, under various perspectives that can represent influencing quantities here, into an evaluation and weighing and evaluation. And based on that you can then decide, in the next step, does it make sense, or which idea do I now pursue further, or similar. And that then, so to speak, but at least in the phase of being creative, quite deliberately even, is first left out, so as not to already limit oneself when collecting, when brainstorming, so to speak. So if we now want to pick up brainstorming again too. Marc, Sabine, would you like to add here again before we go into the closing round?
Yes, I read in the newspaper this morning that Sony, probably, I’ll be careful, probably will stop the complete production of DVDs. And my point is, not-knowing also prevents creativity. I remember once, a friend told me at some point that South Koreans basically only watch movies online now, and that there’s TV on the market with them. I couldn’t imagine that. I didn’t have the knowledge at all back then. That was still the time when I went to the video store to rent a cassette or rent a DVD and watch a movie. And Netflix was a bit smarter there. They probably had knowledge earlier. Who would have thought that Netflix makes a cinema production, that this on-demand becomes more and more important. And now Sony feels it, I don’t know if they didn’t want to know that or simply pursued other goals, but maybe the creativity was lacking there, to think of something else. And not-knowing then also prevents revenue in the future. But when I heard for the very first time that you can watch TV with pictures, so via wireless LAN or via radio, and that you don’t need to go to a video store anymore, that I can watch a movie whenever I want, without needing a disc for it, without needing a cassette for it. I simply couldn’t imagine it, because I’d never seen it before and because I also didn’t have the knowledge about it.
Yes, totally exciting. Thank you so, so much. There we’re back at this imagination too. Sabine, gladly.
Yes, I found what Jürgen said quite interesting again. And what occurred to me now, I was just in Dortmund and I was just in Berlin, and both times I was in the area of the technical universities, and was completely overwhelmed by what had settled around there. And that’s ultimately also the thing about creativity. There’s the environment, where people just brainstorm, where they tinker, where they research, and where something grows out of that if it wants to, and I think that’s much too little given in many places, because if I sit alone at home and think about what I have to do and plan three steps before the first one, I don’t manage that either. But if there’s a mentality that people discuss and research together, and otherwise there also aren’t so many startups where two students start together. And that’s the thing.
Yes, wonderful. Thank you so, so much. And maybe that also makes you feel like actually being creative at one point or another today too, and letting creativity have free rein, without directly looking at something quite specific with that intention, but actually first — similar to research too, so for research’s sake, so to speak, following curiosity too, to see what actually results from that. And you can then still always go into the evaluation in the second stage, and still always consider, does it make sense, against the background of certain evaluation criteria I apply, to pursue a certain idea or similar? Or does it also get discarded again? But at least first, so to speak, also establish this framework. And I don’t know how often we actually use that for ourselves in everyday life. And so I hope that maybe also makes you feel like actually tackling one thing or another quite creatively, and trying that out again too. Especially if you maybe gained the feeling from the room today that maybe I’m allowed, at one point or another, without immediately going into an evaluation, to look much more often, first to become creative, and also to learn to be creative, to then only in a second step look at what I now do with what I derive from that for myself. And yes, with that I’d like to move into the closing round for today. Marc, Sabine, what were, for you again, the highlights from the room, that you’d like to underline again?
Marc. Yes, I’d like to address what you just did, and thereby also say a closing word. It gives me incredible pleasure to always determine the status quo, and then simply, without having a certain goal, let information circle through my head and see, what’s the status quo, what information do I have, and how can I bring old things together anew, and especially, whether we’re entrepreneurs or scientists or whatever, that can start with sales documents, with packaging materials, with new products, and, and, and. And that doesn’t necessarily always have to be the goal, to find something directly for our company now. But really, really exciting is also the exchange with others in that, cross-industry exchange with others. And then really opening your eyes and looking at how they solve certain problems. Not to always immediately have an advantage for us, but simply to think, oh, that’s interesting, I could actually have come up with that myself.
Yes, wonderful. Thank you so, so much. And I find especially this aspect of diversity, or variety, quite important again too, that you also just addressed as a point, which we hadn’t talked about at all today yet, this, how do I even manage to think outside my own guardrails, so to speak, outside my own bubble, that it’s also very helpful, especially in exchange, or especially with people from other areas, to maybe get into a thought exchange here too, because quite different things arise from that too, than if I do that in my own field, with people with a certain lens, so to speak, that look at it. That doesn’t mean that creative ideas can’t arise there too, but the variety, or the expansion of that, is also possible again, if I also bring in a corresponding mixture, so to speak, at that point. Sabine.
Yes, so for me today was again very interesting, the topic of creativity, brainstorming not yet getting into acting. Just letting the thoughts flow. But then also maybe not forgetting to get into acting. Yes, and for me this week was also again on the topic of diversity, what Marc said. I was at three real estate agents this week. They’re a step ahead of me, basically. Super interesting. That was a very solid conversation. But it was also a different direction of thinking than I go. I often only talk with my colleagues, and they all stick their heads in the sand and say, the real estate market is crap right now. And similarly I was also at a founders’ event, not for me, but more as a visitor. There I met really great people. And I only went along because someone asked, do you want to come along? Yes, you often have to take away the excuses and just drive there and meet people. Get out of the bubble. I wish you a really great Saturday.
Yes wonderful, thank you so, so much. I find that really makes you feel like it. So today, looking again at how we can also, to a degree, quite deliberately and consciously go into self-steering, to also get out of the bubble. There are many, many possibilities and opportunities for that. Certainly just pick out something for yourselves, and to also, to a degree, discover something new again, and take in new thoughts, new perspectives, and just see what comes of it, so not necessarily even with such a target quantity, but just see what can arise from it too. And as I said, yes, the evaluation and everything that then comes next in the second stage, that you can then actually also do accordingly in the second stage. Yes, I hope there were many, many impulses for you today too. I found it a great room, totally exciting, also all these developments really, especially with different trains of thought that we had too, with then always the same results, so to speak, having communicated that, having talked about it in exchange, I found that really great, very, very exciting to see how different thoughts can then in turn also possibly lead to the same result, even though you maybe had different thinking approaches. Also very, very exciting, and I’m now first looking forward to tomorrow’s digital campfire. We have at least one digital campfire for every overarching topic, where it’s then about unvarnished stories from your own life or business. And you’re all really warmly invited to join tomorrow, when we then have our digital campfire under this overarching topic of thinking tomorrow. And yes, so gladly tune in again tomorrow morning at 8, and after the various experience values I bring in, I’m already looking forward to the exchange with you afterward too, to see what arises from the room tomorrow. In this sense, I wish you a wonderful Saturday, and I’m looking forward to tomorrow at 8 here at Deep Talk again. Ciao!
