Brain Food for Pioneering Spirits: What significance does (critical) feedback have for gaining insight? That’s the question we explore in Room #823 of the Deep Talk Club, under our overarching theme of “Insight (and gaining it).” Listen in on the examples that came up and the perspectives that emerged in dialogue…
Note: This session was recorded live in German as part of the Deep Talk Club, so the video above is German-language audio only. What follows is an English translation of the conversation, lightly edited for readability — the back-and-forth between the moderator and participants is preserved, but the original timestamps and speaker names have been left out.
Good morning, everyone, a very warm one. Today we’re talking about feedback and insight, or more specifically about critical feedback in particular — what significance feedback ultimately has for gaining insight, and taking a closer look at what kind of feedback, and what role the type of feedback plays in gaining insight. So, as every morning, you’re very warmly invited to join in, to bring in your first thoughts, so that we can enter into exchange together and see how the room develops today. Just a reminder again, the entire room is being recorded, so if you join, you’re automatically agreeing that the recording is running and will be published afterward. And we have three small room rules: your first and last name, at least one sentence in your bio, and a profile photo in which you’re clearly recognizable, to make sure we’re dealing with genuine contributions and not Clubhouse trolls. If for whatever reason you don’t want to do that, you have the option to participate through the chat instead, and I’ll check in on that along the way. And, yes, maybe just a quick reminder too — Layla already mentioned that she won’t be able to join every day this week, since her teaching schedule is starting up again. She’s been the first one up on stage these last few days, so to speak, to help make sure we get the room started together. So all the more reason to warmly invite everyone, in every direction, to participate, to bring in different perspectives, and to make sure we don’t lose too much time, especially at the start of the room. And with that, I’d like to warmly welcome Marc at my side. Good morning.
Good morning, everyone, lovely to be here with you all. As you know, or may have already noticed, I enjoy answering questions exactly as they’re asked, often simply because it’s fun for me — my partner appreciates precision, and I’ve picked that habit up too — and right now I’m reading the headline “Critical Feedback and Insight,” and I’d bluntly say, at first, none, zero. Zero insight, because we’ve actually already covered this topic before — critical feedback directed at me completely bounces off, in the sense that I look at who’s criticizing, how relevant the information actually is to me, does the information have relevance, does it lead to something better. And we’d also already talked about this, dear Yasemin, that feedback, unwanted feedback, can also be a piece of advice that lands like a blow to someone. So if the question is framed purely as critical feedback in the abstract — here’s an example: I’m walking down the street and some kid shouts out, you’re wearing ugly glasses. Maybe I even laugh about it, but I’ve forgotten it again within two seconds. But if someone shouts, “Hey Marc, if I were you I wouldn’t keep running that fast, because up ahead they forgot to cordon off the construction site, and if you keep up that pace you’re probably going to fall into the hole” — then I’m highly alarmed, because there’s actual danger threatening, and then that criticism has both relevance for me and real significance and impact.
Thank you so much. We’ve of course already talked about feedback quite generally in various rooms before, and you’ve already brought in the different components here too, which I think is wonderful. Now we could of course reformulate the question and say, that shout-out you mentioned, along the lines of “watch out, up ahead there’s…,” I wouldn’t actually classify that as feedback yet, so let me reformulate the question here and ask instead, what would feedback actually have to look like, or under what conditions could feedback actually lead to insight? We can look at that accordingly. So, under certain conditions, or from certain angles, this feedback can actually trigger resistance and fail to land. You just said, who’s criticizing, what relevance does it have, and then the further distinction of whether the feedback is wanted or unwanted — and with unwanted feedback, it simply doesn’t trigger anything in you. Now we can look in the direction of, so to speak, what kind of feedback might actually bear fruit toward insight and gaining insight. Do you have an idea about that too?
Yes. Two terms spontaneously come to mind for me: coach and consultant. I read something recently, which I really liked, where a coach really made a point of saying, I’m not a consultant, I don’t have an advisory function, my function is that of a coach — meaning, I ask the questions, and I ask them in a way that gets you thinking, so that through my questions you find the relevant answer for yourself, which I then help move forward. And I really like your question, because you’re setting me up nicely there — which questions would you need to ask, or how could you approach it so that criticism actually lands — because then we’re almost in the territory of sales, because we’re selling something. Not in the sense that I necessarily have something to sell, because criticism can also come from a place where the person I want to criticize is genuinely dear to me, someone who matters to me. It’s just that the way it’s spoken, or my brain is simply wired that way, when someone says, I find that stupid, or I’d do it differently, my underlying belief kicks in first, that I fundamentally shouldn’t just do it the way others do, because I make my own experiences, and that shuts things down. But the question then becomes, how would criticism, as you framed it, or advice, if it is advice, and the person means well by me, land well with me — and for me that would work if it were framed as, hey, I have something really interesting here, I’ve had the following experience with a similar topic, and if you’re interested, I’ll tell you about it, or show you, or fill you in — and who wouldn’t want to be interested? That’s actually a really great technique I use in sales too, giving someone the chance to decide for themselves, saying, this might be interesting for you, I obviously can’t judge that myself, but can we talk about it? Then they get to bring up their criticism. But usually criticism comes bundled with emotion, and as soon as we — I’ve noticed this in myself too — as soon as I react emotionally in a certain situation, whether in a relationship or professionally, I stop being able to pay attention to my word choice, so that word choice automatically gets interpreted as an attack, and things get difficult. Then emotions arise in the other person too, and the whole communication ends up running on a completely different track.
Wonderful, thank you so much. There were several different components in there too — on one hand this aspect of possibly working with questions, and on the other hand offering actual decision-making options, in the sense of, do we even want to talk about this or not, essentially making an offer, and then also the word choice you brought in, and the emotions that play such an important role here. That reminds me too, we actually had an Authors’ Breakfast about rhetorical aspects with Michael Ehlers, and that touched on feedback too, in terms of whether it’s directed at the past or directed at the future. He mentioned that feedback often gets given in a way that refers to something in the past, along the lines of, this or that wasn’t good, or you could have done this better — but often the future-facing perspective isn’t chosen, because what good does it do me to know, okay, I could have done it better, rather than pointing toward the future and saying what to do differently next time, giving that tip right alongside it, for instance. What’s your take on that?
Perfect. I remember that segment really well, and let me just phrase it more bluntly — I wouldn’t normally put it this way, but most people just aren’t aware of this: they mean well. But when someone criticizes me, my brain shortens it, and ultimately the message that lands is, I find you crap, or I find what you did crap — I’m deliberately using the word “crap” here, in brackets. And then my body reacts, I don’t want that. If someone finds me stupid or ridiculous, my brain shuts down. But if someone says, what you did there wasn’t bad at all, I really liked it, and if you improve this or that aspect, you’ll have an even bigger impact — that’s exactly the point I remember Sonja using with me too, right here in this room, when she said, Marc, when you cite sources, it can come across like you’re uncertain. I’ve thought about that for a really, really long time, dear Sonja. I still haven’t come to a conclusion for myself, because I like using citations precisely so that it doesn’t feel like what I’m sharing is just an emotional decision, but rather I care that people can trace where my sources come from, how I arrived at that insight, can you follow the logic there? But that gave me a lot to think about for a long time, dear Sonja, about how I’ll phrase things going forward, whether, when I’m speaking up here on stage, I say, I’ve read this, or I’ve heard this, I’ve read the following studies, or whether I just state something as fact outright — and I’m actually training myself on that too, depending on where it’s appropriate and where it isn’t. And I’d also like to, at this point… I didn’t take it as criticism at all, not even a little, I actually found it really fascinating. That was a genuine insight for me, being able to improve my own rhetoric.
Wonderful, thank you so much. I’d actually like to go back to these questions and really dig deeper into them. This kind of phrasing clearly makes a real difference — you mentioned it earlier and called it advice, whether I give advice, in a manner of speaking, or whether I act through questions instead. And the type of question, or how a question is shaped, clearly influences what kind of answers come back, or whether a thinking process actually gets set in motion. And that’s exactly where we could pick up on one or two things from coaching too. Sonja, a very good morning to you, I believe you wanted to jump right in here.
A very good morning to you. I’m naturally interested in responding to that directly, because I remember exactly what I said, and I remember it quite differently from how you just summarized it, Marc. I don’t remember addressing you specifically about coming across as uncertain — what I remember is saying that I personally listen more attentively when people cite sources very early on, or say, others have said this too, this has been shown in studies. And I wasn’t referring to anyone specific in the room at all. But what you’re describing does of course happen very, very often — this isn’t the first time I’ve experienced that. These are things I formulate neutrally, for my own inner way of dealing with certain situations, and other people immediately take it personally, because they identify with the statement. And that’s exactly what very easily and quickly leads to criticism, or gets perceived as a critical remark directed at the person, when it’s not actually meant as a statement about the person at all, but really says something about the other person’s assessment of the situation first. And I think that’s a really major point that we experience very often in society — that communication works exactly this way, that something gets said with one intention, and it lands in a completely different context for the other person, and gets taken very personally. And if the person sending it also isn’t in a particularly settled place themselves, it gets perceived as an attack, and then the whole cascade spirals downward instead of leading into a good conversation. And personally I really love it when people manage to stay in conversation, and I think I can regulate my own emotions fairly well, and I really like trying to resolve situations like that, so that the other person can look back on it with a good feeling too. Because in the rarest of cases do we actually reject the other person personally when we voice something critical — we’re often simply not able to formulate it adequately. A critical remark, in and of itself, has nothing to do with the person at first. It’s often simply down to a lack of skill in phrasing it in a way that the other person can relate to the situation rather than to themselves as a person. And separating the person from the matter at hand is something we often have to train ourselves to do, something we’re not used to, something that can really hurt, and something many people simply can’t do. And it’s worth it, I know this from my own experience, from my own separation experience, to keep looking, again and again: am I being addressed as a person here, or is this about a process, about a matter? We can’t resolve that for other people. We can really only start with our own perceptions, our own communication style, and become a bit more watchful, asking, did the other person really mean me, or did they say something about the behavior, the process, the situation — and that’s a massive difference. And if we learn that, we actually arrive at valuable insights even from critical remarks, because we recognize, hey, the other person might actually be helping us spot a blind spot right now. They can help us build better connections with others. They can help us approach a situation more sensibly, more purposefully, better. That was somehow an important impulse for me — I had to say that, because I really, really like Marc. Marc, I like you. I really didn’t want you to remember it as me having criticized you, because that couldn’t be further from what I meant. Thank you.
Wonderful, thank you so much. And I think this distinction between person and matter is really such an important aspect. You said you can actually train that, and it works in both directions — meaning, as the sender I can train that, and also as the receiver, if I’m trained in it, even when I get a message, in a manner of speaking, where that distinction isn’t made, I’m still able to handle it differently because of that, and for instance regulate my emotions accordingly. I’d also like to pick up an aspect Heike brought into the chat — when do I actually have a mandate to give criticism? How does the situation even arise where I end up giving criticism? That seems like an interesting aspect too, maybe we can pick that up as well. And Marc, I saw you wanted to add something too.
Exactly, that’s how I remember it too. I find these rooms genuinely fascinating. Thank you so much, dear Sonja — I never took it as criticism either, not even remotely, because for me that wasn’t criticism at all, it was a valuable insight, like a mirror, to observe myself. And I just realized, you’re completely right about how you described the situation between two people — essentially we listen to each other, and then check, does what this person is describing, what they’ve experienced, apply to me, do I recognize myself in it, and what do I do with that insight? But I never took it as criticism, because thanks to these rooms I’ve genuinely learned an incredible amount over the last two years, and I don’t evaluate something as an attack either — someone’s opinion is, in itself, value-neutral, and this evaluating, we’ve had a room on that too, whether I frame a piece of information as, well, how should I put it, whether someone doesn’t like me, or has some issue with one of my traits, I get to decide how to evaluate that — oh, they don’t like me, I find that annoying, or, oh, they actually like me so much that they’re willing to help me improve, that’s actually really nice, thank you, please give me more information. That’s also up to our own evaluation, and that’s exactly why I find this room of yours, Yasemin, so valuable, because it’s really helped me enormously to learn more over the last two years, things I never got from schoolbooks — that information, I didn’t get from schoolbooks, I get that information from interacting with intelligent, reflective people. Thank you.
Wonderful, thank you so much too. And ultimately, I think we shouldn’t forget in this context that feedback is, fundamentally, always subjective. Let me give an example — say someone gave a talk or presentation, and it can happen that one person perceived it as spoken too fast, another person felt it was exactly right, and yet another person might have felt it was actually too slow. Now you could of course ask, well, who’s right? Ultimately this has a lot to do with our personal perceptions, and what we often do is, when we have a perception and want to give someone that feedback, regardless of whether we actually have a mandate to do so or not, we tend to package it as a statement of fact, like “that’s just how it is,” along the lines of, “you spoke too fast.” That’s a phrasing that presents itself as a fact, but doesn’t make clear that it’s actually my perception, or how it would have been better for me personally. That doesn’t necessarily mean it needs to be changed per se, it’s simply how it landed for me. And here too we should really differentiate. What can help here are so-called “I” statements — that’s also something you can train, and at the same time become aware that feedback is ultimately always a personal perception that we’re reporting back, and not claim that it represents the truth or a fact. It’s entirely possible that someone else experienced it completely differently than we did. And then there’s also this question of mandate. I think that’s actually a really important point that Heike brought into the chat, which we’d already touched on a bit with this coach-versus-consultant distinction. Just as a coach, for instance, differentiates and says, I don’t have an advisory mandate, the question also arises, when do I even have a mandate, in a manner of speaking, to give feedback in the first place? What’s your take on that? Sonja, go ahead.
A situation with Toastmasters immediately came to mind for me. I don’t know how well-known that is here — Toastmasters is a worldwide organization where essentially laypeople support each other in learning to speak in front of an audience. At these meetings, when you meet regularly and give a speech, you also evaluate each other and give each other feedback, and that’s specifically what you train there. And what’s fascinating is that, after giving a speech, you get feedback on that same speech from several different people. And exactly what you just described, Yasemin, happens there — someone says, you spoke too fast, presenting it somewhat as a fact, without distinguishing that it’s their personal perception, or even their personal preference. And what you can gain really good insight from is that, if certain feedback keeps repeating, if we get it from several different people, we can conclude that it’s very likely something many people would experience when we give that speech. And conversely, if something only comes up once, or a particular type of feedback always comes from just one person, then it’s also quite clearly possible to conclude that it’s simply that one person’s personal, subjective preference. That also trains you to accept critical feedback that wasn’t phrased particularly well, and to endure it anyway, and to learn, hey, that’s really just this one person’s personal opinion. We will never make every single person happy with our way of communicating, because there will always be someone it doesn’t sit well with, and, if we’re lucky, there will always be people who do like and appreciate our way of communicating too. Thank you.
That’s a really, really important aspect, I think, that you’ve opened up here too — making exactly that distinction and being able to draw insights from it for yourself. Meaning, if I only get a piece of feedback once, then for me, at first, I can notice it, I can listen to it mindfully, and just let it stand, so to speak — endure it and let it be. And that doesn’t necessarily mean I have to do something with it, or should. But if I hear feedback from different sides that keeps pointing in the same direction, that’s an aspect where I should really prick up my ears and actually go into self-observation, to really take another look. Because if a piece of feedback keeps coming up, that suggests there’s something here worth taking a closer look at myself, maybe even considering how I could do things differently, to actually move into some kind of change. And I think that’s a really, really important aspect too. So this is really about how we evaluate feedback, how we handle it accordingly. And you can already see that different insights get gathered in the context of feedback, depending on how much reflection we’ve actually already gone into, in order to handle this feedback that we get every day, in some form, from all sides. Of course you could differentiate further and ask, well, if I get some kind of response to something, is that even feedback at all? I’m not even trying to get so precisely into what exactly counts as feedback, that could be its own separate room, to really look at in detail, whether every response I get should be classified as feedback, or what’s good feedback, bad feedback, or similar — here it’s really about this bridge. If I get some kind of response, in some form, how do I differentiate that for myself, how do I handle it, and what does the whole thing actually have to do with insight, or how can I use it to actually gain insight from it? And I think we’ve already touched on some really, really important aspects there. And then there’s these subjective aspects again, these “I” statements. We said we have the coach versus consultant distinction — with a consultant, we actually have someone we hire externally, whereas with a coach, essentially, I want to enter into exchange, I want to have some kind of resonance, so to speak. And in that case, the coach doesn’t give advice, but leads through questions, primarily through questions. And if something isn’t phrased as a question, but as a statement instead, it’s meant more as an impulse, along the lines of, check this out, here’s another perspective, what’s your take on that? So there too, it’s coupled with a question, and that ultimately leads to that kind of reflection. We’ve had this in various rooms before, that formulating questions really does spark a thinking process. So I’d like to dig a bit deeper into this question-based approach. Sonja, Marc, what’s your take on this — whether I give someone a response or feedback in the form of statements, or whether I work with questions instead? How could that actually be shaped? Sonja, go ahead first.
I actually hadn’t raised my hand there, I thought I’d let you speak first. Well, since I coach myself, I’m naturally quite trained and used to asking questions, to sparking certain impulses through questions. So I’d actually be much more interested in hearing what Marc has to say and responding to that. Marc, if something comes to mind for you, I’ll gladly hand you the floor and pick back up if something occurs to me.
Something just came to mind for me too, my favorite line from lawyers, always “it depends” — let me say that quickly, otherwise we’ll speak too fast — “it always depends on the situation.” I love Andreas Englisch, the Vatican correspondent, and when he tells stories about what he’s experienced in Rome, he speaks at a speed that comes close to Dieter Thomas Heck’s, for anyone who still remembers him, from the German pop charts show. I hang on his every word. And that information, funnily enough, that’s just what he experienced, I don’t have to logically follow along with it. Meaning, he really can’t speak fast enough for me, because I find it so entertaining that I always want more, faster. If he were explaining something to me in mathematics or chemistry, or any other technical process, he’d have to speak extremely slowly, and I still wouldn’t understand it. So, it depends. And what you said, dear Yasemin, I find that question really fascinating — about unwanted feedback, or however we encounter each other. We can hurt people with our language, but we can also motivate them. And I think we’ve all learned to speak German, but we’ve never learned in school how what we say actually lands with the other person. And by that I don’t mean the information itself — the information gets transmitted just fine, but how does it get transmitted? We simply can’t switch off our feelings. And if we speak in a way that touches on feelings, whether in the form of criticism or in the form of a recommendation, my brain reacts — well, everyone will probably react differently, but I react in a particular way. And then you just have to try it out, how you can manage to really talk to someone at eye level. And we ourselves get to ask, do we really want to criticize, what’s our intention? Do we want the other person to have a better life? Do we want the other person’s situation to improve? And I also think the person being criticized gets to question, what’s the other person’s intention here? It could also be that I’m being criticized by someone who’s completely dissatisfied with their own life. Maybe the criticism isn’t even justified at all — maybe something completely different is preoccupying them, and if they hadn’t criticized this particular point, they would have criticized something else entirely. And that brings me back to relevance — what relevance does this have for me, and what’s the other person’s actual intention, and in what kind of question, and what tone, do these words reach me?
Go ahead, Sonja.
You’re touching on something really important with intention, because sometimes intention just isn’t that clearly recognizable, especially when it comes to critical remarks. I’m actually thinking specifically of private breakup situations, with very clear critical remarks that weren’t necessarily formulated as clean feedback, but as “you” statements, which can also be quite hurtful, with the clear message being, I don’t even want, I don’t want you to speak, I just want to get this off my chest. And that’s personally quite hard for me — first, to recognize the intention behind it, and second, to find my way into a role that actually fits the situation. Because on one hand, my professional background has trained me heavily toward constructive conversation, questions, and listening, but on the other hand, I know there’s no coaching without a mandate, and I also know, hey, I’m personally deeply affected right now, and what I’m hearing genuinely hurts. And I see things from a completely different perspective. Those are moments where I actually feel quite helpless, because I don’t have any clear sense of good communication patterns in that particular moment. And I help myself by saying, I have an opinion on this too, would you like to hear it? And that’s incredibly hard for me to phrase, because the answer is often, no, I wouldn’t — and enduring that is extremely hard, because then I have to stay consistent, if I asked the question and got the answer no, that means keeping quiet and simply enduring it, even if I find it extremely unfair. But that’s also part of insight for me — if I commit myself to following good communication rules and forms, then I also have to hold myself to that consistently, even when everything inside me is screaming, wanting to set the record straight, wanting to add my own point of view. And that, for me personally, is one of the hardest challenges in human relationships.
Absolutely. And here too, if we actually check in beforehand, in the sense of, would you like that? My own observation, and self-experience, is that it’s a bit like an automatic reflex, saying yes quickly out of politeness, rather than it being a genuinely meant yes. So I always find myself a bit torn on this — even when I ask the other person, I can never really be 100% sure, from my perspective, that they genuinely, truly want it. Maybe, in a manner of speaking, they said yes too quickly instead of actually taking the opportunity to say no. So it’s really worth handling that mindfully and carefully. The best scenario, of course, in a manner of speaking, is when the other person comes to me and asks, hey, what did you think of that, or would you give me some feedback? That’s obviously the best scenario, because then there’s a really clear mandate in place, along the lines of, how did you experience that, I’m interested in your perspective, and responding to that accordingly. I’d like to distinguish and differentiate that a bit further now. Going back to the aspect you just opened up, Sonja, about this private situation — because of course we also have recurring situations, in a partnership or in a family, for instance, where certain things happen. And I can hardly say, I’ll just always wait for the other person to say, I’d like some feedback — there are other aspects involved here too. Which is why context plays a real role here, worth looking at more closely. And you probably know this, you’ve probably experienced this before, where someone’s obviously swallowed a lot already and hasn’t said anything, and then at some point they explode over some small thing, and sometimes you’re genuinely confused about why this particular reaction is happening. And often, if you look at it more closely together, or talk it through, it turns out it actually wasn’t about that particular situation at all, but really an accumulation of something that had already been building up before, except the person just never communicated it, swallowed it instead. And here it really is important, in the sense of setting and maintaining your own boundaries and so on, to actually give some kind of response here and there. Not necessarily in terms of, well, I don’t know if you’d even call that feedback, but in the sense of making clear what’s personally important to me, for instance in a partnership, or whether I want something or don’t want something, and so on. Not to change or improve the other person, but to show that something matters particularly to me here, and to communicate that in good time. And I’d actually distinguish that from classic feedback in a situation. So, do I even need to add my two cents here? Question mark. That’s a question I can always ask myself again — does this even have any relevance for me, that I’ve formed the opinion I want to give someone feedback, because often that’s really just about satisfying some impulse of my own, but if the other person never asked for it, and if it has no impact whatsoever, in a manner of speaking, on our collaboration or anything else, then the question arises, why am I even claiming the right to give this other person feedback, in a manner of speaking? What do you two think about that? Go ahead, Marc.
Sonja just described that too, in her private situation, that someone might just say, I simply want to say something right now, and I think we’ve all been in situations, or found ourselves in them, where we just want to get our thoughts off our chest. It’s not about having a conversation at all, it’s not about feedback either, our head is just in a jumble — and I’ve noticed for myself that the moment I tell my partner something, or put my thoughts into words, solutions automatically start emerging, because the solutions are often already inside me, and the moment I really think hard about something, I arrive at an insight and an answer without the other person even giving me one. And sometimes, along with what Sonja said about enduring things, it’s also true that we find ourselves in situations where we ask, what does the other person actually want right now, maybe they really just want to get their thoughts off their chest, thoughts that might be uncomfortable for me too — and in those moments you have to grit your teeth a bit and say, okay, you have to endure this now, don’t take it as an attack on you personally, the other person is just genuinely not doing well right now, and at the very least, in a situation like that, I can say, I’m here for you. And to answer your question, dear Yasemin — other people matter to us, especially in family, and we see things that others maybe don’t see. And sometimes you just have to observe. Because it doesn’t help if a good friend tells you, your partner isn’t right for you, or your friend isn’t right for you — that intervenes so intensely in someone’s life. Instead I can pick up on their feelings and say, I can see you’re not doing well right now, tell me what’s going on, without immediately handing them a recommendation. Because maybe the same thing happens for them as for me — the moment they start talking, they release the pressure in their head and already feel better afterward. Of course they haven’t actually solved the situation yet, but sometimes it’s really just about the other person being allowed to feel a little bit better after a conversation.
Thank you so much. Maybe Sonja would like to add something to that too in a moment. Something just came back to me too, in the family context — I don’t know if this happens for you all sometimes too. For us, we often have situations where we simply handle things with a lot of humor. Meaning, we don’t really give each other feedback as such, but we regularly have situations where one person ends up imitating something the other did, or similar, but not in the sense of hurting the other person, it genuinely becomes a funny situation. That happens really often for us at breakfast, or something like that, and we all end up laughing about it together. What’s important there, though, is that it’s not about getting back at the other person or anything. I think it’s still worth paying attention to how we handle that. For us, it’s really the case that we often pick up on situations from the past, so to speak, and then either mimic a certain tone of voice, or a movement someone made, or something similar, so that we can laugh about it together. Often these are things that didn’t just happen once, but that somehow stuck with the other person, because there’s a certain repetition to it. And I find that interesting, because it’s not feedback, not classic feedback in the sense of someone giving a response. Through this shared, humorous way of dealing with it, and being able to laugh about it together, the situation of actually noticing it at all arises in the first place. Something like, yeah, that’s true, there’s something to that. And that ultimately moves you to maybe think about it a bit too, or your focus gets drawn to it. Which means, the next time it happens, you sort of catch yourself doing it, like, ah, there it is again. I find that quite funny in this context. I’m curious now, do you two know something like that too? Do you have something like that? Or how do you handle things like that?
Yes, I know that from our shared apartment too, for instance, or when I get together with my brother, we do things like that really, really often. And I think humor in particular is a wonderful form of resonance, and a really great way to deal with uncomfortable situations, or with criticism too. Because humor builds a bridge in that kind of conflicted feeling. Something that somehow rubbed you the wrong way, or that you noticed, gets emphasized — and by “disturbs” I mean it breaks the routine, not that it displeases me, just that it’s noticeable. And the moment it gets emphasized like that, we get the chance to give it more significance. I don’t quite know how to describe it without opening up the whole background to it, but essentially, when something gets emphasized, it just gains more importance, and we react to it with attention. So if something stands out, our brain becomes alert, and through this kind of humor, or picking up on certain patterns, tics, behaviors, whatever it might be, exactly that happens — a particular focus gets drawn onto it. And I think that’s a really lovely, healthy, and harmonious way to deal with criticism, or to experience resonance at all. So it’s wonderful that you have that in your family, keep nurturing that, it’s a wonderful thing to have.
Thank you. And listening to you just describe that, another thought occurred to me — isn’t satire, and things like that, actually a form of feedback too, if you look at it more closely from that angle? Ultimately it’s really about, in a humorous way, as a kind of art form in its presentation, bringing certain things to the point, for people to watch and reflect on. There are so many moments where we nod along, where we laugh, and so on. And even though it ultimately leans more toward a kind of generalization, in a sense, picking up on societal topics and things like that, it also ultimately sparks reflection. What’s your take on that? Sonja, go ahead.
Yes, I think it’s a wonderful form of mirroring, or drawing attention to something, because that’s exactly what happens. Things that are worth mentioning simply get emphasized, exaggerated, overdrawn, and through that we first notice, when we laugh, oh yes, that’s actually exactly how we see it too — and then this inner voice kicks in, saying, oh, but you’re not really supposed to see it that way, and then we find ourselves in this inner tension, and through that we’re able to self-regulate and recognize the true core within it, really shedding light on very critical statements first, through this kind of humor. And I think that’s a really valuable form of art, and of communicating, and of drawing attention to grievances, and I think it’s lovely that it gets categorized as art, because that’s exactly what allows it to be expressed, and I think that’s a really, really valuable contribution to our society and culture. Thank you so much.
Marc, did you want to add something here too?
Yes, I think you’re completely right, laughing is something really relaxing, and I’m actually retraining myself to laugh again, because I regret something — back when I was going through puberty, you have those situations where you’re unhappily in love, tears are streaming, and out of nowhere, after a crying fit, a laughing fit would suddenly come over me. But in a way where you couldn’t stop, where the class teacher would even ask you to leave the classroom because you were disrupting the lesson. And somehow I unlearned that on the way to becoming an adult. And it does me an incredible amount of good to encounter people who can laugh that wholeheartedly — I don’t quite know how to describe it, that you just have to join in laughing, it’s simply an outburst of laughter. And I know there’s actually such a thing as laughter yoga, which I’m training myself in again right now. Because I can laugh at something funny, of course, it’s not that I’m not a humorous person, but I mean that laugh that comes from deep in your belly, where you can’t stop, where you genuinely say, I can’t stop now, I can’t hold it in anymore — and you have to allow yourself that again too. And I think laughing has an extremely relaxing effect, whether I’m the one doing it, or whether other people are laughing, it’s simply contagious and does you good.
So we can definitely try, again and again, in one situation or another, to bring in a certain lightness through humor, so to speak — not in an artificial way, but really looking at how you might be able to create a space where you can approach certain things a bit more playfully, with humor. Humor really does play a big role in what actually lands with the other person, or doesn’t. And here we never really know for sure what will land with the other person, so it’s also about leaving them the space, so to speak — it’s not necessarily about, I want to get this message across and it absolutely has to land with the other person, but rather being willing to just let one thing or another simply stand in the room, which is sometimes genuinely a real challenge. Because we always tend, to some extent, to want to change the other person too. And ultimately it’s simply not our job to change the other person — the real focus, again and again, should be, I can look at my own behavior, I can change my own behavior. And beyond that, I do have the option of giving feedback, but here too there’s the topic of expectation management, not assuming that the other person will actually change something just because I gave them that feedback, regardless of whether there was a mandate for it or not. That has to do with the other person too, whether and what they actually take from it, absorb, and want to work on accordingly, or not. We’ve got a few more aspects in the chat I’d like to pick up on. Heike wrote, I love questions — questions give the truffle-hunting dog in our brain a search assignment, a mission to find something fitting to the question. And then Ismail asked, how could I even recognize when a piece of feedback is critical? Heike already wrote in the chat about that too, I think that’s a decision I make myself — how do I perceive a piece of feedback, and how do I evaluate it, or does it trigger me? Maybe we can tie back into that. Are there any further additions or thoughts coming up for you two on these aspects? Sonja, Marc.
Well, I think the moment something someone says to me actually stings a little, and I don’t immediately give an inner nod, or say yes to it, I can assume that’s criticism right there, and that’s something very, very subjective. Sometimes we even perceive something as criticism that wasn’t meant as criticism at all, but rather as support, just containing a slight deviation from how we ourselves look at things, and that can already register as critical feedback. So, if we don’t define feedback cleanly as feedback, but just as some kind of response in general, I’d say it’s present whenever I notice, ooh, something’s pricking there, I can’t immediately say, I’m fully on board with that.
Marc, you wanted to add something too.
How I can recognize that, I come back to my opening line, what relevance does it have. And then I question it, go deep within myself, look at the other person and say, what expertise do you actually have on this topic, that you’re giving me criticism? Are you a doctor? Do you have some other qualification? Are you a tax attorney? Or do you happen to work at an advertising agency? And if someone gives me criticism, say in a professional context, telling me, you should expand, you need to grow by hiring more staff, and I look at that person and they themselves only have two employees, I say, that’s really interesting that you’re giving me that criticism — either you don’t actually believe in your own suggestions, since you only have three staff yourself, or is there something else going on there? And that’s why I always ask, what qualifies you as an expert here, and what relevance does that have for me if I actually take that suggestion on board?
Absolutely, thank you so much. I hope that helps. There were a lot of different aspects covered here today, I can already see the emojis coming in. Wonderful, thank you all for the feedback from the listeners too. Heike just wrote, a wonderful aspect is observing in yourself what actually gives you the feeling that you have to give feedback, and just letting it go instead. So really looking more closely at that. We often have this impulse, in a manner of speaking, to want to do something good for someone, and we often forget that feedback is, ultimately, always something subjective, and maybe we don’t even have the mandate for it, and yet we think, in a manner of speaking, we don’t mean any harm, we mean well, and we want to give feedback. That impulse is simply there quite often, and it’s worth going into that self-observation, that self-reflection here too. And I think this is also, in terms of insight and gaining insight, worth looking at from this perspective, observing yourself in everyday life, how does that actually look, how often do I give feedback, maybe even unasked? And is it really necessary to give that feedback? Sonja, go ahead.
I think that’s a great point, because I believe every one of us knows that impulse, wanting to respond to something someone else said or did. And the question of how I handle that impulse, I always try to add another question to it — does it actually move the other person forward, and is it useful for them if I give feedback? And, yes, that already gets me a small step further, whether I’m just acting out of a sense of mission, or whether it’s genuinely for the other person’s benefit. And even if I come to the conclusion, hey, this would actually be really useful for the other person right now, I then ask myself further, is it useful from their perspective too? Do they actually want that, do they even want a certain different angle on the situation at all? And I very often recognize, for myself, that I’m acting out of a sense of mission, and that’s a really clear signal for me to hold my tongue, and first pay attention to any signals about whether the other person is actually signaling that they want a response at all. And if that’s not the case, that means holding back and keeping my thoughts to myself. That’s something I get to train regularly, and do train, and keep getting better at.
Absolutely. And that’s really not something to underestimate, depending on what contexts and environments we’re moving through. Deep Talk itself is actually a really classic example of this too — I have to tell you, I very often have impulses toward giving feedback, or wanting to give feedback, in a manner of speaking. And very often it really does require a certain amount of self-regulation not to act on that, because there simply isn’t a mandate for it in that moment. Even though one or another person might actually appreciate it, but precisely to avoid the situation where someone feels pressured to say yes when they might not have actually wanted to say yes in that moment — and here we also have a public setting playing into it too, of course, since we’re not one-on-one, there are more people present here. So being really, really conscious and deliberate about how you handle this is always a challenge too, because those impulses genuinely keep coming up. And to just perceive one thing or another purely as an observation, so to speak — of course not as a fact, or as right or wrong or anything, but simply to notice it, observe it, and not weigh in on everything, so to speak, not always add my two cents, but sometimes just let one thing or another stand in the room without commenting further. That too is ultimately a form of training, or requires training, so to speak, in the form of impulse control here. Sonja, Marc, do you want to add anything briefly to that before we move into the closing round?
One more thought definitely came to mind for me — not everyone is actually familiar with these communication rules, and I’ve also experienced people saying, hey, you could have just told me, or asked me, because I didn’t know I was supposed to ask for feedback, I just didn’t dare to. And that ties into what you just said, that it’s important to have a really sensitive perception and to be able to read the signals well. And sometimes we get it right, and sometimes we get it wrong too. And I think you have to, or you’re allowed to, take a risk sometimes and listen to your gut. And the better we train our communication, and the more mindful we become, the better our gut ends up guiding us too. Thank you.
Wonderful. Thank you, Marc.
I have two points. First, we raised the question, when is criticism even appropriate in the first place? And for me the first question would be to ask someone, are you actually satisfied with your situation, with how things are going right now? And the other person might say, yes, I’m totally satisfied. Then there’s nothing more to add, because if they’re satisfied, they’re satisfied. And the moment I offer them the conversation, I’m making an offer. And we all sell services and products every single day, in some sense. And that’s exactly what I notice on LinkedIn, and what bothers me about a lot of social networks — I get offers I don’t even want. We’ve unlearned how to ask questions. Every day I get emails about how to get more customers, more revenue, more time, and nobody ever asks me whether I even need or want that. That’s why I decided this year to hardly accept any connection requests on LinkedIn anymore, because I can already tell from the headline that it offers me no added value, because nobody bothers to ask, are you happy, are you satisfied, does it even make sense for us to continue from this point?
Oh yes, I can really relate to that. Thank you so much. Social media, and connection requests in particular, are definitely an aspect worth looking at too — whether we look at sales, at networking, and so on and so forth, there are so many situations across so many areas where we end up with feedback, or feedback-like situations, or offers being made without anyone ever asking whether there’s actually a need for it in the first place. So I find that a really fascinating aspect to pick up on too. And with that, dear everyone, thank you so much. Given the time, I’d like to move into our closing round for today. What were your highlights from the room today, or is there anything you’d like to underline once more? Marc, and then Sonja, please.
What spontaneously comes to mind for me is, well-meant isn’t always well-done. And let’s be with each other rather than against each other, and laugh with each other rather than at each other.
Wonderful, thank you. Sonja?
Those are really lovely words, Marc. And that’s exactly why my highlight is that you were here with us again today. Thank you.
Wonderful, thank you so much. And, well, we actually already had a keyword earlier — I believe, if I remember correctly, it came from Marc. He used the term “at eye level” earlier, and I made a note of that, because it’s a wonderful bridge to tomorrow’s room. Tomorrow it’s about arriving at insight through respect and tolerance, so to speak — what significance respect, appreciation, and tolerance ultimately have for understanding one another and for gaining insight. I’m really looking forward to that. “At eye level” is a term I can easily imagine taking on special meaning again tomorrow in that context, so I’d like to pick that back up tomorrow. I’m really looking forward to it. With that, please join us again tomorrow when we continue at 8am. Thank you so much for the intensive participation, also through our chat, I hope we managed to pick up on everything that was relevant. So, tomorrow at 8am we continue. I wish you all a wonderful start to the week, and I hope we’ll hear from each other again tomorrow morning at 8am here at Deep Talk. With that, until then.
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