#826 Insight & Time as a Dimension

Brain Food for Pioneering Spirits: What role does time play in gaining insight? That’s the question we explore in Room #826 of the Deep Talk Club, under our overarching theme of “Insight (and gaining it).” Listen in on the examples that came up and the perspectives that emerged in dialogue…

Note: This session was recorded live in German as part of the Deep Talk Club, so the video above is German-language audio only. What follows is an English translation of the conversation, lightly edited for readability — the back-and-forth between the moderator and participants is preserved, but the original timestamps and speaker names have been left out.

A very warm good morning to you all. Today we’re looking at insight and time as a dimension. So it’s about what role time plays in insight and in gaining insight, and looking a bit at how long it actually takes to gain an insight. Does it happen quickly? Does it take a long time? We can bring in various example dimensions here, depending on what experiences you’ve had yourselves in this context. So, as every morning, you’re warmly invited to join in and bring in different examples from your own experience in this exchange, so we can look together at what experiences you’ve had and, using those examples, see what direction this space for reflection takes and how it unfolds together this morning. And just a quick note again for anyone joining for the first time today, perhaps: we have a recording running in the background, so a reminder here too — anyone who joins to take part in the exchange automatically agrees that it’s being recorded and will be published later. And beyond that we have three small room rules to observe: a profile photo in which you’re clearly recognizable, your first and last name, and at least one sentence in your bio. And if anyone doesn’t want to do that for whatever reason, wants to stay anonymous or similar, they of course have the option to use the chat instead, and I’ll check in there from time to time to pick things up accordingly. So, insight and time as a dimension. What role does time play in insight and gaining insight? Does insight take a long time? Can it also happen relatively quickly? What examples come to mind for you from your own past, so to speak from your own experience? Feel free to bring in a few examples so we can pick them up and get started. And with that I’ll mute myself briefly and see who wants to open the round with me this morning. Please remember, since this is being recorded, not to let long pauses happen, including toward the end, so to speak, to make sure we use our time well here and can get started together as quickly as possible, to have a shared space for reflection. A very warm good morning, dear Erik. What do you have to say on the topic?

Yes, good morning, Yasemin. Well, I’ll just jump in so it doesn’t stay quiet here for too long. So, time, or insight through gaining time. I think we already touched on this a bit in past rooms — that in connection with wisdom, you often need a certain age, because you gain certain experiences and certain life lessons over time, and that makes insight possible, because you might see in yourself, or through observation, that certain things keep happening again, or that certain upsets tend to settle down quickly, and if you observe that over time and recognise patterns, then in my opinion an insight can develop out of that, and if it’s based on experience, a certain amount of time is necessary. Even if someone tells you something, or you’re told it by someone else, that doesn’t necessarily have to lead to insight. It might only set in after a certain amount of time. And in a bigger context, if you think about gaining insight, maybe in science or in the technology sector or something like that, which happens more or less collectively — there’s also this phenomenon there where people say the time wasn’t ripe yet for a certain insight. If we think about climate change, for instance, the insight that things can’t continue like this might have always been there. But at some point, over time, a kind of critical mass builds up, and the insight suddenly takes hold across the board. Those would be my first thoughts on the topic.

Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. And this raises a question for me too, to look at and think about what the difference might actually be. Maybe there’s a difference here regarding how long an insight actually takes to form — that’s one question you can open up under this dimension of time. The other is, because you mentioned patterns or similar, especially if something is recurring, then it also takes a certain amount of time to realise it. But if you’re told about it, or something like that, then the insight might already be there. That doesn’t mean, though, that the insight directly leads to changed behaviour. And now the question is, is it maybe the behaviour change that’s the aspect that actually takes longer, while the insight itself could already be there much faster? And with this collective example too, this aspect — the time wasn’t ripe yet — I’d replace “for” with “for it” instead of for a certain insight. Maybe here too, especially with the climate example, I’d almost say the insight that things can’t continue like this has actually been around for quite a while, but that hasn’t necessarily led to a change in behaviour yet — that this insight ultimately results in doing something differently, or handling it differently. So I’m curious what you think about that. And I’d also like to, since a few more people have joined the room, a few more listeners, repeat that today we’re talking about insight and time as a dimension. So what role does time play in insight and gaining insight? We’re looking at different examples here, from our own past or from what we pick up from our surroundings. So the question is, how long does an insight actually take? What does that have to do with time? Does it take a long time? Does it take a short time? Does it sometimes happen really fast too? So that we look at the whole thing again here with this aspect of time as a dimension. Erik, what do you say to that? Does it make sense here to distinguish between insight and behaviour change?

Yes, in a way you could maybe break it down further like this, that maybe the knowledge was there beforehand and it’s given way to a certain insight, so to speak. Or, in my case, it’s like this: my mother always used to tell me that compound interest is a really powerful thing you should make use of over time. It just takes time. I knew that early on, but at some point, only once I really engaged with it myself, I actually had this insight, and, yes, that would maybe be a half-example from my own life. So insight in the sense of, yes, I basically know cognitively that it’s like that, but then at some point there’s this point where I’ve also really, more or less, internalised it. I don’t quite know how to put it exactly. And then, following on from that, a change in behaviour can of course follow too, which might even generate further insights in other people, externally. But, yes, between recognising something and the resulting change in behaviour, time will probably have to pass there too, until it becomes established.

Yes, thank you, thank you so much. So that means, knowing that I know something doesn’t automatically mean it’s an insight at the same time. That means knowledge is initially just available to me. Insight, I’d say now, has something to do with the process of understanding too. Especially with the example you just brought up, this compound-interest effect — the information was available to you, so to speak, stored as knowledge first, but the insight, really understanding what impact the whole thing has, only came later, through engaging with it yourself, putting it into context, and so on. And then, as a next step, so to speak, this aspect of behaviour change again. And especially on the level of behaviour change, it can take time too, to break patterns, for example, or similar, especially depending on whether it’s tied to habits that existed before and are meant to be changed here, and so on. And this dimension of time can be shaped by that too. The insight itself — I’d like to look at that a bit more now, how is that exactly? Because we definitely have insights, I’d say, that can happen within seconds, regardless of whether we’ve already heard it 50 times before or whatever. That means insight is something that can be there within a single moment? Or is there also insight that can genuinely take a longer time? Or is this insight in itself always something that happens within a short moment, regardless of what framework leads me to gain that insight? And this framework, this “something” to get there, is something that takes time, thought of as a process. I’m really curious here, and I’d genuinely like to bring in and listen to a few other examples and perspectives too. So you’re all very, very warmly invited to really join in and enrich this round with Erik and me here too, with different thoughts and aspects you’d like to bring in. A very warm good morning, dear Marc. What do you have to say about this?

Good morning to the whole round. I think that, in itself — this is my own experience — insight definitely takes time. Because if that weren’t the case for me, I’m speaking for myself here, then a lot of things would be a lot simpler. So let’s say I smoked. I don’t think I’d need to arrive at the insight that smoking is unhealthy — I’d stop immediately. It’s the same with drinking. It’s the same with everything I set out to do, with exercising, with all the goals I have — but the insight that smoking isn’t healthy maybe only really becomes conscious for me once it gets stronger. So if the doctor tells me, if you keep going like this, you’ll soon have no time left to think about it, because you won’t be alive anymore. And those are the shock moments that I then actually engage with. And you’re a specialist in brains too, dear Yasemin — I just think that has to do with the fact that we simply live in our bubble, and our brain doesn’t like change either. And so it takes a while until we actually implement the insight that’s already laid down inside us. And that takes time.

Yes, wonderful. Thank you, thank you so much. And you just mentioned a shock moment, for example. So we’re pretty quickly into the territory of emotions there too. That means insight is often accompanied by something emotional. That can be a shock moment. It can also be a moment of joy, maybe. So different directions, really, thought through here too. It can be a life-changing experience of some kind, and life-changing in this context, both positive and negative. So that means I can definitely — we could maybe compare this to that “aha moment” too, that a little light goes on inside us, so to speak. Those are symbols that we’re probably familiar with in this context too, that come to mind for us when we think of images or something related to insight. The classic light bulb, for example, where the light goes on. That means, basically, the process itself needs time, but the moment of insight itself is basically a moment in which that happens. That’s why we talk about an “aha moment,” for instance. So I find it really fascinating here to look at what this process level actually is, what happens before or after, and what it is that actually makes up the insight, or this moment of insight, so to speak, and I find it fascinating that this aspect of emotion comes back into it again with these shock moments or similar. So, what else comes to mind for you when you hear that? Erik, Marc, do you have further examples, further additions to that? And the others in the room are warmly invited to join in too, and add to this here, and look at insight through this dimension of time — what role does time play in insight or gaining insight, how long does an insight actually take? That’s what we’re dealing with today, and accordingly you’re warmly invited to join in and bring in your own examples from the past too, to open up different perspectives. And just a quick reminder again, we’re recording the room, so if you join, you’re agreeing that this recording is running and that it will be published later too. We have three small room rules: a profile photo in which you’re clearly recognizable, your first and last name, and at least one sentence in your bio. And anyone who doesn’t want that, wants to stay anonymous or similar, or currently can’t speak, is welcome to use the chat too, to bring in their own thoughts here, so that we can pick up further perspectives on the topic too. And those can definitely be questions too — so not just an example, but maybe questions that are on your mind in this context, where you say, that should be considered here too, where we might be able to look at it together. Erik, Marc, do you have further additions or thoughts?

Yes, I actually really liked the image, or the phrasing, from Marc — that it’s basically a framework that builds up over a longer period of time. Maybe, from the feeling of it, that’s also how I imagine it for myself when an insight comes. There are, so to speak, separate fields of knowledge, I’d say. So I know certain things that I’ve learned about a topic over time. Other things about a different topic, or experienced, or whatever. So, one topic, or connections, or something like that. And then there’s this moment where a kind of missing link is no longer missing, where fields that you’ve built up and learned over time connect with each other. And that feels like an insight to me, where I say, oh look, there are connections like this here, and here, and in between there’s another one too. I’ve been thinking of an example this whole time. Maybe one will come to me later, but right now I don’t have one. But that was an idea I had, because I feel, from the feeling of it, that when you have this gain in insight, it really is this aha moment, but you can’t force it or generate it, in the sense of saying, okay, I need an aha moment now, I have these various topics, and I say, they’re connected — instead it really happens because they built up separately and then a connection takes place. That’s how it would feel to me, at least.

Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. Yes, go ahead. Wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. I don’t know if you could hear me just now, so I’ll gladly repeat it. Marc, I saw you blinking — feel free to go straight ahead if you’d like. I hope we can hear you now, Marc.

I hope it’s working. I’m having technical problems right now, I had to switch phones and my headset isn’t working. I do think we can prepare ourselves for this insight, actually — I was just thinking, if you follow the news, dear Yasemin, I thought about your book yesterday, the one you wrote, about crisis, and we’re currently in a world that’s changing, and a new word I’ve learned is the “BANI world” — meaning that everything we used to rely on no longer applies. Values are changing, everything is different. And if we learn, our brain — we do have a brain, after all — if our brain learns to take new paths, that means we’re now living in a completely new state, and then our brain finds new answers too. And I find this really, really fascinating — just recently, the media reported on an auto show that took place in China, and VW, for example, now has a market share of 15.3 percent. But what did the VW people do? And not just the VW people — people simply saw the Chinese as little worker ants. They’re just Chinese, and who on earth would want a Chinese car? These days, it’s actually the case that in the automotive market, specifically in electric mobility, VW has a market share of 2 percent, and together with BMW and Mercedes they don’t even reach 5 percent, compared to a market share of 15 percent for combustion-engine cars. And I think the automotive industry is really starting to sweat now, trying to catch up, and what I found really fascinating in this context too was the news that Mercedes — I don’t know if this applies to all car manufacturers — but that Mercedes has drawn the insight for itself that they no longer even want to serve the mass market. They’re getting out of that, their customers are the wealthy of the future. That means if you want a normal car, you’ll have to buy a Chinese one, a Korean one, or a Japanese one. But if I understood correctly, the new philosophy at Mercedes is that the luxury segment is the segment of the future, and that they’re getting out of the mass market — just roughly summarised. And I find that really, really fascinating. The facts had been known for a long time, but what you inspired in me with your book, dear Yasemin, is that we can train our brain for that — what could happen, even if it still seems highly unlikely. And we once talked in this room about what would happen if we suddenly had no electricity anymore, or what would happen if we suddenly had no workforce anymore. Then my manager colleague would say, are you crazy, Marc? We have a power supply, why on earth would we not have electricity anymore? And we have more than enough workers. But if you imagine the impossible, then our brain is forced, for the sake of survival, to find new insights and come up with new solutions, even if the situation doesn’t even exist yet.

Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. And that’s also a lovely bridge to the thought I already had when Erik brought in his contribution earlier. It was said that you can’t force it, so to speak. There are different portions of knowledge that come together, which then, in combination with some kind of key moment, lead to us having an aha moment too. Exactly when this moment of insight occurs, you can’t really force that — it happens, so to speak, to some degree on its own. But what became clear from these descriptions was that basically they really are like puzzle pieces, so to speak — that different elements of knowledge, I’ll call them, come together here and then get connected with each other, and through something — Erik called it the missing link — that’s then no longer missing, meaning some kind of connectivity is established here, connecting things with each other, which then leads to a moment of insight arising too. And so I’d like to formulate a follow-up question now: if I can’t force this exact moment, when it happens, can I still somehow promote or encourage it in some way? And here’s the wonderful bridge you just built, with the connection to this book, “Adventure Entrepreneur Crisis,” and what you make of it. It’s that the more connections I know, for example — and here I can quite deliberately steer things — the more fields of knowledge, that could be professional fields, that could be — why do we actually do internships during school, or later during studies? To get insights into different areas. That means the more I myself make sure of that, whether that’s consuming certain news, or various further-education opportunities, or whatever — and there are so many different possibilities here — that I gather information on the one hand, which I can then process as knowledge, and on the other hand I also contribute to making it possible for this connectivity to be established later. And we already talked about synapses in the brain before, or talked about it more often in the past — that we can imagine the whole thing like a network, so to speak, a neural network with different strands. If I engage individual strands, those strands grow accordingly. And the more I make sure not just that one individual strand grows, but approach things a bit more generally, engaging with different fields with a certain curiosity, for example, and so on, I make sure that different network strands grow too, and they then connect with each other too. So we can imagine it like this — that these connections ultimately give us these moments of insight too. And that’s something we can definitely steer, thought of as training, so to speak — that even if I don’t know exactly when this aha moment, or this moment of insight, will come, the more I create room, so to speak, for different puzzle pieces that can then be put together, the more I generally promote this process of insight. What would you say to that? Do you see it that way too, or do you have examples that could support that further?

Yes, gladly. I think application processes might go quite differently in the future, and you said a word yesterday that I really liked — pattern-breaking. If the patterns we’ve experienced from the past no longer hold true, then we need to break them. And up to now, managers were asked, when they took on a job, what experience do you have, how much knowledge do you have. But I think if we want to break the patterns, we need courage and openness too. And an interesting question in a job interview, for me, would be to ask someone, are you afraid? And based on my experience, I’d say, no, I’m not afraid. I wouldn’t get the job at all if I were afraid — I can’t use a fearful type. Now my answer would be, oh, if you’re not afraid, then I can’t use you in my company. Because if you don’t have emotions, and no fears, and haven’t learned to deal with your own fears and emotions, where are you going to get the courage and openness to answer questions about the future?

Yes, and this changed external framework leads us, in various places, especially where there are patterns — you just brought up this aspect of patterns again too — to being able to handle things quite differently here too. That naturally requires, at one point, a certain awareness — not just knowledge, but also awareness. Maybe that’s another term we can look at together too, what role awareness, as opposed to knowledge, plays in this gain in insight — making that distinction conceptually too. And then yesterday, we said we could pick that up again too. I don’t know if you’d like to say anything more about that. Toward the end of the room we also had aspects like death, or loss, pain, which came up in this context of insight and empathy too, where we said we could maybe bring that in as an entry point this morning too. Maybe I also wanted to tie back in with what was said yesterday, if you have a reference point for that now. Erik, Marc, what do you say to that in general — so, on the one hand, this knowledge and awareness thing. And if you’d like, tying back in with yesterday’s room again, where this death, loss, or pain came up as an aspect, in the context of empathy.

I’d like to go back to the earlier question about preparing for insight, or enabling insight, also in connection with what Marc just said about the automotive industry. It’s a bit like my own example too — if you look at these disruptions, or disruption in general, and how that’s played out, there are these prominent examples, Kodak for instance, who didn’t recognise in time that digital photography would eventually become more important than analogue photography, and various industries, encyclopedias, that changed due to technological renewal, where entire sectors were sometimes completely restructured, where companies fell out of the market that no one would ever have expected. And there are countless examples of that over time. The car industry is going through it right now too. Like Marc already said — I also saw it critically back then, when people couldn’t stop laughing at the first attempts at Chinese cars, which really weren’t very good, but, well, today you can see that development has taken place there too, and the laughter has gotten quieter. And I kept observing these kinds of things in the past too, with search engines, Google and so on, Facebook, all these companies that quickly gained size with new technologies and maybe displaced other established market players first. And now, in my own environment — I’m a software developer, and last year, sometime mid to late last year, we had a conversation like that among colleagues, and we were thinking about how likely it is, or what would have to happen, for software developers to no longer be in such demand, or for us to get disrupted out of existence, so to speak. And then we thought about various things and said, well, somehow nothing comes to mind. It’s really a complex thing. You need a lot of background knowledge and experience and so on. And we couldn’t imagine at the time how you’d even automate something like that. And then, of course, ChatGPT came along. ChatGPT, in its current state, is — it’s insane what it can do in the programming world. It’s a hugely powerful tool. It’s not the case yet that I’d say it could replace all developers. Some, probably, though. And here too it’s the same laughing effect you saw with the Chinese cars. I notice that again today too — people say, well, it can’t do that much yet, and the way it is right now, it’ll never be a real threat. Yes, that’s true, but it’s also still very early, it’s all still in development. And here too, because I’d watched for a long time where disruption was happening, how it went for others and so on, I thought about my own situation, didn’t find anything myself, and then this development came along that has the potential, from my point of view, to displace me too. And I won’t say — it really could have been a moment of insight in December, when I tried ChatGPT for the first time. I remember I was very quickly quite impressed, and in that moment I also thought, yes, this is the tool that could become dangerous for me. And here too, this build-up took place — I engaged with the topic, kept following it, and then this missing link came along, this technology that I hadn’t previously — I knew it existed, of course, artificial intelligence. I also had knowledge of what it’s capable of. I’d seen it, or you see it with vehicles like Tesla, for example, that use it to navigate through traffic. That means I knew there was huge potential in this technology. On the other hand, I knew that software development is very complex, and then ChatGPT came along basically as the missing link, and then I saw, okay, this can move forward, and it could replace a large portion of software developers, maybe even all of them, we’ll see — and out of that, of course, an action now has to arise, where I look at how I can make use of this for myself.

Yes, a really, really lovely example, I think, that you’ve opened up here too, because we can adapt a lot of things here in different directions too, and especially this aspect of disruption that you’re raising is something that’s already happened, in quotation marks, in many fields — that’s really taken hold, so to speak. And the phenomenon that keeps being observed here is this belittling of things, so to speak, not taking developments that are happening seriously. And that often has to do with the fact that we have aspects like quality as a defining trait, which is really, really strongly pronounced, especially in German-speaking countries, putting that above everything, in quotation marks, and because of that being of the opinion that certain things could never become dangerous to us, because quality is also really important to the customer and so on. But there’s often a real gap that can develop here too, where you can see, for example — we had the car as an example, so let me pick that up again — if the car ends up costing only half as much, in quotation marks, then the customer might well be inclined, within the limits of their financial budget, to forgo one thing or another and switch to alternatives instead. So that could be one reason, for example. And there are always various influencing factors at play here, so to speak, and these developments that then happen — I find it really fascinating that you say you basically observed various things, even in this disruptive development, and then when ChatGPT came along — before that you couldn’t imagine it, but once you saw what AI could do as a tool, in this case ChatGPT as an example, because that’s so market-penetrating right now, on everyone’s lips, and has drawn attention to itself because of that, even though AI itself isn’t really new — but it becomes clear here, or becomes really tangible for the first time, what AI can actually already do, how far along AI already is, and gives you a sense of what could develop further, if you actually engage with this tool to some degree and really work with it — not just in the sense of, ah, let’s see what this thing can do, two or three inputs and that’s it, but really engaging with it more intensively, to realise, or even just get an idea, of what could develop further and what direction that could all go in. And here, that means — and what you said, that it might not replace all developers, but certainly some, maybe even today already — I find that a really interesting aspect that I’d like to pick up again too. It’s like that in many areas too, even if we bring up the Kodak example again — the development that took place didn’t displace photography itself, per se, but it did displace certain parts of it, meaning it shifted more into the digital, for example, and so on. And it’s similar with developers too. That means, initially, it might be simpler programming, or simpler programming languages, that get replaced, because AI is capable of learning too, so to speak — of course, today we’re still needed, in quotation marks, to teach it certain things. Once it’s learned certain things, it might no longer need one input or another from outside. But then it’ll need other things instead, so to speak, that get fed back into the system as input from outside again. And here you can’t say that ChatGPT, in quotation marks, or AI-powered tools, replace humans per se, but they will keep replacing certain professions, certain focus areas, and so on, again and again. And on the other hand, that also means at the same time that there’ll be new tasks and fields too, where the person who previously worked in a certain area is now needed and wanted in a different area. For example — we already talked about this in this context — learning how to actually work with ChatGPT, or how can I make sure to train ChatGPT here too. And I don’t just mean that on the very top level, the developers of ChatGPT itself, but — and I think this is really interesting here, and you could maybe look at this and apply it to other areas too, especially in your own field, where we’re professionally active too — that I can “feed” ChatGPT myself too, in quotation marks, in the sense that I can guide ChatGPT through a deep-learning process, through the application I run, so to speak, in this learning process, so that it adopts my writing style, for example, so that it delivers appropriate responses and so on. And accordingly, if I adapt that to other areas, I might be able to look at other areas too. And it definitely makes sense — first of all, to really be careful about belittling developments, whatever development that might be. We should always keep looking at that, and above all, not just tune it out, but really pick certain things up too, again in the sense of connections, in order to be able to realise what’s coming our way, in quotation marks. And that doesn’t just mean technological developments, but all developments that we become aware of — that we really look a bit more closely here too and engage with these topics. On the one hand because it might be exciting to be able to join the conversation, but on the other hand because these developments ultimately have an impact on us too. Whether that’s private or professional — usually it’s not just one area or the other, but various areas. That means, for example, I also need to know exactly what the competition is doing, or what’s happening in the market, so that, in the sense of looking ahead, I also have the chance to bring different puzzle pieces together in the first place. And I found that really fascinating — with a project I had once, I found that really fascinating too. It was also a company in the automotive sector, and they’d developed something new and were really, really pleased that they’d developed it. And I was almost a bit astonished, because my car has been able to do that for a long time already. And when I brought that up, I saw that they were surprised, because apparently they hadn’t engaged with that at all, and simply didn’t know — at least some individuals, I can’t generalise this of course, but individual people, and those were managers in senior positions too — didn’t know at all that this other make, this other model, had already been offering that for a long time, and they’d celebrated it as a huge achievement of their own, so to speak. And that shows me too — and I found this almost shocking at the time — that shows me too that this belittling often comes from the fact that we simply don’t engage intensively enough with what the competitor can actually already do, or how it’s actually designed in detail, and instead let ourselves be steered by the media or something like that, simply consuming certain news, not really looking closely, not looking at the details, but just allowing ourselves to form a judgement without really having understood the connections. And there we are again with this process of insight. And time plays a role here, in the sense that at some point I realise it, and then I’ve understood it, and by then it might already be too late, or it becomes difficult to close this gap again. What do you say to that, Erik, Marc?

Yesterday I came to a realisation, dear Yasemin, because I asked myself, in a sense — it’s about that automotive show from China again. What still worries me a bit is, ever since I’ve been able to drive, I’ve steered my own car myself. That at some point I won’t need that anymore, and maybe won’t even have a steering wheel at some point — that only worries me in the sense that it’s unfamiliar, I just can’t imagine it. But when I saw the new cars, how advanced they are, that the cars don’t even have buttons anymore, that the windscreen — the windshield we’re looking through right now — that this connectivity with people will become so deeply embedded that driving itself is developing in a completely new direction. The only thing left on our car, like in the old days, will be the wheels. But in the future, we won’t even need to face forward anymore — all the instruments will be projected through the windscreen. That means the passenger can see everything too, which of course means, if you’ve only ever seen this in films, you drive somewhere to France or Italy and can work, and don’t even need to look outside anymore. You drive through virtual worlds, and so on and so forth. And for me that was like something out of a science fiction film. And of course I keep asking myself, would I want to sit in a car like that — and smile about it. And then I realise, yes, it’s difficult for me to trust the technology, but I won’t be able to avoid it. These cars will exist at some point, and at some point, if I’m lucky enough to live to see it, my grandchild will probably ask me, hey grandpa, how did you all get around back then, and you steered it yourself? Yes, yes, of course. But what did you do the whole time then? Isn’t that wasted lifetime? We watch a film, we educate ourselves, we sit in the car and talk to each other. And I say, well, it’s like the phone booth — those don’t exist anymore either. And it’s fascinating to observe these processes now, because our world really is in a completely new upheaval, like I’ve never known before.

Yes, thank you, thank you so much, Erik. I don’t know if you’d like to add anything more?

Yes, gladly. Yes, I’d like to jump in on that too. Especially with technology, there’s really a danger of just adopting what’s familiar and saying, that’s what I want. Especially in the car world, I find — you think, I enjoy finding the right gear and hearing the engine and driving to the petrol station and so on. And that might be true for some people, but usually you have a car because you want to change location. You want to get from one place to another, and maybe you want to take someone with you, or several people want to get to the same place at the same time and so on. So the point of a vehicle isn’t that I go and fill it up, or that I charge it, or whatever — I actually don’t want to have to deal with that at all, I just use whatever it offers me. And it’s the same in other areas too. This is a fictional example, but you could also say, how nice it always is to walk to the village well with a wooden bucket and scoop water there, because you also meet other people that way. And that’s actually what I enjoy, and I don’t really want a water pipe that brings the water straight to my house. What would I even do with that time then? Maybe similar with farming. There was a time when almost everyone farmed to make food. You couldn’t imagine what it would be like if there were suddenly a tractor that could do the work of 10, 15, 20 people at once — wouldn’t that make you bored? Today we know, well, there are still plenty of things to do outside of farming. So that’s what I see especially in the field of advanced technologies and further development — that people think the status quo is really what they want, as an end in itself. But usually that’s not the case.

Yes, thank you, thank you so much. Marc, would you like to add something directly too?

Yes, I’d like to — I’ve been keeping an eye on the time. I’d like to bring in another train of thought, if I may, actually — your room is called insight and time, and we haven’t really talked about the word “time” itself yet. And you’ve surely noticed this too — the older I get, I have the feeling time passes faster and faster. And I was really, really happy to learn that it’s not just me who feels that way, but that a lot, lot of people feel that way, and maybe you could say something more about that too, dear Yasemin. Apparently it has something to do with the fact that our brain processes images more slowly as we age. Our brain is pretty full of information. That means even if we do nothing and spend the whole day at the doctor’s waiting room, or really just lie on the sofa, we think the day passed much, much faster than it used to. And I found this phenomenon of time really, really interesting. So I actually try, on my travels, to feed my brain with lots and lots of new information again — not just sitting still and doing nothing, but doing what we did as children, taking in lots and lots of information, getting as many impressions as possible. You get the feeling that time passes more slowly then, and you’re filled again with new impulses and experiences you’ve had. That’s a bit of a departure from what we were just discussing, insight and time, but looking at time, at what time does to our insight as a time factor and what influence time has, I found that really, really fascinating.

Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. Let me see if I can pull the essence out of these last contributions, with an eye on the time, so to speak. And above all, we also have a contribution in the chat that I’d like to pick up on too, before we move into the closing round together. So, on the one hand, regarding this aspect you just opened up, Marc — that has something to do with learning processes too. Especially as children, we absorb so many influences and process them at top speed, so to speak. And that’s also intended by nature, in quotation marks, designed that way by our brain, because children are meant to learn and process the broad strokes, the whole picture, so to speak, in order to be put in a position to survive at all, to stand on their own two feet. And as we get older — and this basically means from age 25, not just in old age, but from 25 onward — these learning processes gradually slow down, and the older we get, the slower it gets, so to speak. And that has its function too, it’s nothing negative or anything like that, but rather because connections are being formed here. That means everything we take in as information and influences from outside gets processed differently and linked to experiences we’ve had, to things we’ve stored. It gets networked, so to speak, with the knowledge we’ve already laid down in our brain, in other places too. And accordingly we learn more slowly. And that’s not somehow better or worse or anything, it’s simply tied to a different function here, and it also has the function of allowing us, for example, to recognise details better, or connections better, and so on and so forth. That means the learning process itself gets slower, but has a different depth, a different dimension to it. And along with that, this aspect of our sense of time can play a role too, that we have the feeling everything is somehow rushing past us. And I mean, especially when we look at these new technologies and everything coming together right now — that’s also happening at top speed, so to speak, everything raining down on us in our environment. On the one hand we have digitalisation, then new technologies. More and more new information keeps coming together, which gets processed in some way. And even if we feel like we’re not processing one thing or another, our unconscious, our subconscious, is working on it too, so to speak. That means, even if we feel like we’re missing certain things, our brain is constantly busy taking in and processing new information from outside, as influences or stimuli and so on, even if we don’t consciously perceive it with our focus every time — just wanted to mention that in this context. And then I also found the question that came up in passing from Erik really interesting — this “what would I even do with that time then?” And I find that a really, really interesting question too. And in one of my books, “Breakthrough Through Change,” I actually cover these new technologies and developments and the connections between them, and the direction we’re currently moving in. That was originally published in 2018, so that’s a few years ago too, and I find it really fascinating when I open that one chapter today — those were different authors, we wrote it together, and in my chapter it’s about these developments toward the future — I find it really fascinating to look at that again, because I already cover aspects there like unconditional basic income, which we might get, and so on, the development with cars and so on, blockchain technology. So if you don’t look at these things in isolation, or these developments in isolation, but instead look at them together in interplay — what does it mean if, on the one hand, we have general digitalisation, the internet and so on, and then blockchain comes along too, AI comes along too, and keeps developing further — how does the job market change as a result, for example? Then I have a rough idea, even if I don’t know exactly what will happen, I can put one and one together, so to speak, and derive future scenarios from that. So, if we open this up briefly with the car example — if cars in the future are able to transport us from A to B without us having to sit at the wheel ourselves and steer the car, then something shifts here. And then the question arises, do I even still need my own car and so on. And what I find interesting in this context too is that we had Dr. Mario Herger with us at the Authors’ Breakfast, with his book “The Last Driver’s License Holder,” which was also published in 2017 — I don’t know if there were editions before that. There too, it’s discussed that basically the first generation has already been born that will never get a driver’s license. And developments since then confirm, basically, a few years later, that we really are moving in this direction. And the relevant question we can derive from that is, what do I do with the time gained? So if I no longer need to do this or that, but instead something else, I’ve gained time again to do other things. And that’s something that plays a role again, especially in terms of competitiveness and so on — that I can subsume one thing or another, think it through, consider what the job market of the future might look like, or something similar, what direction we’re moving in. And I believe, if I’m not mistaken, this must have been in the context of Japan — they’d already talked about digitalisation, I think 5.0, where it was about having more time to pursue questions of meaning, do leisure activities. So this personal encounter, which suddenly plays a completely different role again. And this might require activities. That means this would be one way to already engage with things like this, to think about how you can prepare for this future market that’s coming, where you might have a certain basic financial security, where you might be given certain funds — it’s been discussed for many years already, what you then actually do with the time gained, and to create offerings around that, or think in that direction, already today, because that could be something that has demand tomorrow accordingly. So it’s really fascinating to look at that, and especially if we look at the automotive market — if I no longer need a driver’s license, if the cars can drive themselves, if buses can drive themselves, then let’s think this through. Then we won’t need taxi drivers anymore, we won’t need bus drivers anymore, we won’t need tram drivers anymore, and so on and so forth. And I don’t mean that as a shock, in the sense of, oh my god, that’s all terrible — these people will find other tasks too, and do other things, so to speak, but really thinking it through, and if in the future I myself, like with the concept of car-sharing, maybe no longer have my own car parked outside the door, but instead, like a kind of taxi, I’ll call it, get into a car and let myself be driven around, in quotation marks, then the question arises, we won’t need parking spaces anymore either, and so on. So you can really spin that out very far. That means, for example, we recently talked with someone — well, recently, that’s actually a few months ago now — who was thinking about investing in parking garages or parking spaces, garages or something like that, where I’d say, that’s an investment I wouldn’t go into, because I don’t think we’ll need that anymore in the future at all. And recognising these connections, so that we can make the right decisions today too, whether that’s about investments, financial investments, whatever it is, or how we shape our business — I think there’s really, really a lot of potential there, if we not only perceive and see these connections and generate insights from them for the here and now, but also then, in terms of the future perspective, think about what that actually means and what direction the whole thing is developing in. Now I’d like to pick up finally on the contribution from Ismail in the chat. He writes: I think about the world of work. After three or five years in a position, you should already have a certain insight. Self-confidence plays a big role. I think about the direction of promotions too, and I find that a really important aspect too — there are definitely companies that actually encourage this, where there’s an underlying attitude that you should change position every three to five years. And I think that’s also something we can quite significantly influence ourselves, even in an employed role, where we say, if I’ve been in a position for three years, it’s time for me to make a change, and to actually look for new opportunities again, to get to know new fields. That doesn’t even have to mean changing companies — it can also happen within the company. Depending on how big the company is, you have quite a few different possibilities here to look into different areas, in order to generate new insights through that again too. And in self-employment, that applies just as much. That means not just keeping your lens fixed on one thing and your own portfolio, but constantly considering the short, medium, and long term here too, and accordingly always broadening your view too, and looking in other directions sometimes, especially in directions that might not seem obvious to us at first, in order to generate new insights from areas that aren’t automatically given to us or already there, because we often can’t even imagine what kind of insights might come up there. Yes, wonderful. With that, I’ve tried to bring together the last three points. And I’d like to move into the closing round together now. Erik, Marc, where would you like to add something else? Or what are your highlights from the room today?

Yes, unfortunately I have to leave fairly promptly now. I wish you all a wonderful day, and thanks again for the room.

Wonderful, thank you, thank you so much, Erik. Marc.

My insight is that time flew by incredibly fast again this morning, and it was really great. And the second insight is that I’ll have to explain to my grandchildren what function a driving instructor had back in the year 2023, a profession that won’t exist anymore by then.

Yes, thank you, thank you so much, Marc. Yes, I think so too, time really raced by today. There were so many, many impulses, so many examples. Thank you, thank you so much for the lively participation here, and for the wonderful examples that were brought in, so that we could really open up different doors of aspects too. And I’m really looking forward to tomorrow, where we’ll continue with conscious control and insight — so, to what extent can gaining insight actually be consciously steered? We want to look at that more closely, and basically that ties right into what we already touched on today too — this “how can I promote this to some degree,” so, consciously moving into steering it. And so I’m glad that, even if it might feel like it’s ending a bit abruptly today after these 60 minutes, we’ll have the chance tomorrow to pick up on one thing or another again, and maybe spin it further, and take a really targeted look at this conscious steering. With that in mind, I’m looking forward to hearing you all again tomorrow morning. Do join us at 8am in the Deep Talk. I wish you all a wonderful day, and say ciao.