#844 Self-Knowledge Part 2

Brain Food for Pioneering Spirits: What is self-knowledge, really, and what does the process of understanding it look like? That’s the question we explore in Room #844 of the Deep Talk Club, under our overarching theme of “Insight (and gaining it).” Listen in on the examples that came up and the perspectives that emerged in dialogue…

Note: This session was recorded live in German as part of the Deep Talk Club, so the video above is German-language audio only. What follows is an English translation of the conversation, lightly edited for readability — the back-and-forth between the moderator and participants is preserved, but the original timestamps and speaker names have been left out.

A wonderful good morning to you all. Today we’re talking about self-knowledge, part 2. And how did we earn this honor? Well, after we didn’t quite manage the day before yesterday, in my view, to build the full bridge to properly get into the topic, because we picked up a few more important aspects from the previous day’s chat, which was kind of a promise, and that’s not a problem. So we tried to build one bridge or another again, but basically we didn’t really talk about self-knowledge in the form originally planned for the room. So I decided to pick up this topic again today, and push the remaining topics back by a day. We’re free in how we design this, so that’s why today’s room is called “Self-Knowledge Part 2,” to connect a bit to what we discussed yesterday, gladly picking up the aspect of yesterday’s authors’ breakfast too, and actually today focusing on insight, or self-knowledge, and opening up this distinction again and talking about it. Self-knowledge, if I look at the Wikipedia definition, it says it’s a person’s insight about their own self. What actually is the self? We can talk about that here in this context too. In contrast to general insight, this is insight about one’s own self. And yes, I’m really curious what your first thoughts are, where we can connect here, what examples we can bring in, and how we can dive deeper together. So you’re all very, very warmly invited to join this morning, to open up different perspectives together in dialogue, and see what insights we can then, in turn, generally pull from the room today, and what we can take away. Another quick reminder that the room is being recorded the entire time, so anyone who joins automatically agrees that the recording will be published accordingly too. And we have three small room rules: a profile photo where you’re clearly recognizable, a first and last name, and at least one sentence in your bio. Anyone who, for whatever reason, doesn’t want to do that, is warmly invited to simply leave questions, thoughts, and such in the chat. Then I can pick that up too, if it fits well at the time. So let me unmute for a moment this morning and see who’d like to join first. A wonderful good morning, dear Marc. What are your first thoughts on self-knowledge?

Well, if I look at self-knowledge — good morning first to the round, and a great start to the week — if I look at self-knowledge as a change process, so if I want to change something. We all live in our own constructed reality. That means we live in our own bubble and our own world, and the insight we have about ourselves. And that’s a good thing too, it’s not written anywhere that we have to want to change. But if we want to arrive at new self-knowledge, then for me the process I learned for myself, and also had to learn painfully, was self-reflection. And self-reflection also means accepting other things, so how do others see me? First, how do I see myself? How do others see me? And also being honest with myself, could there be something to that? So is the view others have of me, could there be something to it? Of course not from just anyone on the street, but from people in my close environment whose opinion matters to me, and where I also know they’re not giving me their opinion because they’re angry or jealous, but because they simply see me that way. That’s their own constructed reality. If I compare my own reality with their reality, then I have the opportunity to generate new self-knowledge for myself, and also set change processes in motion. But self-reflection is indispensable for me in that, because otherwise I think change is very hard to achieve. It’s hard to get out of your own bubble, because usually we like how we are, or what we do. Otherwise we wouldn’t do it.

Yes, wonderful, thank you so much, and we’re actually continuing tomorrow with the room topic self-knowledge and self-reflection, so with the self in parentheses each time. Because as you just said, self-knowledge is closely connected to self-reflection too. That means central questions I can formulate here, for example, are things like, who am I, what goals do I have, what have I already achieved, who do I want to be, what are my needs or values, what are my strengths, what are my weaknesses, what were maybe some very personal, biggest insights about myself in the past. So we have a lot of possible questions we can formulate here too. And we’ll notice that with all these questions being formulated, we relatively quickly get into this self-reflection to some extent too. And so tomorrow we’ll look at this bridge again more precisely, and look at what role self-reflection and self-observation play in gaining insight. And so you can see it’s already almost hard to delineate these from each other, so to speak, and look at both terms separately, because they’re almost inseparably connected. Are there any big personal self-knowledge moments, dear Marc, that you gained for yourself in the past, where you say, those were really huge self-knowledge moments for me?

Yes, actually, we talked about this over the weekend, dear Yasemin. Through Clubhouse I first became aware of the term neurobiology, or neuroconscious. And I told my partner yesterday, looking back on my entire school years, my entire training, if you asked me today what’s the most important subject taught in school for you, I’d immediately say biology. But not in the form it’s currently taught, but with the addition that we know, if our feelings determine our actions, and our actions determine our result, then that’s something that accompanies us in every area of life. Professionally, in relationships, everywhere our actions determine the result. And once I arrive at this insight, that feelings are allowed to play a really, really important role, and I become aware of what a big role my head, which I carry around with me, plays — because through this head I can steer feelings, and if I can steer feelings through my head, I can constantly put myself into a different state through my head. If I’d known that in school, I’d have been ten or 15 years ahead. But you shouldn’t look into the past. Karl Lagerfeld also said, I never look back, I only look forward and see what’s happening now, today, and where I want to go in the future.

Yes, wonderful, thank you so much, and I find that nice too, to pick up this distinction between general insight and self-knowledge again. What you described, yes, through the insights you’ve gathered, this looking back and then, in hindsight, arriving at a new evaluation or a new idea of how important it would be to bring up a certain aspect in school, so to speak — I’d say per se, that would fall under general insight. Now, if we build the bridge again here, what does self-knowledge do in this context? What would the self-knowledge component be here? Do you have an idea?

Yes, I have an idea. Understanding the process. Basically I didn’t actually arrive at a new insight, because as a child you’re already told, you’re responsible for yourself, and you have to, and you have to, and you have to — but these processes, this “you have to,” I couldn’t grasp this “you have to.” It’s important — important for what? Your parents tell you this is important too, this is important that you’re good in school, it’s important that you do that, but those are just stock phrases. Okay, a lot of things are important. Why should this be important? There’s a difference between taking in information and really understanding information, and for myself I’ve realized, only once I know what’s behind this information have I really grasped it, meaning I really know what these words mean. Not in the sense of German, not in the sense of understanding — I’d already understood the words before. But what meaning the words actually have as a result, in the end, that took some time.

Yes, thank you so much. And yes, I’d like to explicitly invite the others to join here too, and open up different perspectives. So how was it for you, or how is it for you? What were your own biggest personal insights, self-knowledge moments, you’ve gained? And where’s the actual difference for you, so we get a few different perspectives here too, a colorful bouquet so to speak, a multifaceted room today. A wonderful good morning, dear Alex. What do you say about the topic?

Yes, a wonderful good morning after a very long absence, back here again, and of course on a fitting topic. My biggest self-knowledge was actually that I belong to these so-called scanner personalities, and that according to the DISC concept I belong more to the red-yellow color type, or personality type. Because I used to always think, something’s not right with you, you’re somehow wrong, you don’t stick with things. And of course society always mirrors that back to you too — you have to persevere, you have to be disciplined, and you have 150,000 things going on, finish something for once, stick with it for once — and at some point you start believing yourself that something’s wrong with you, and you start doubting yourself. And when I first discovered, I think it was from Barbara Sher, the topic of scanner personalities, and read about it and recognized myself so much in it, I realized, there’s nothing wrong with you, you’re just a bit different, you’re just wired a bit differently, which doesn’t mean it’s bad. And that gave me a lot of peace, and also helped me direct my potential in the right direction, and recognize, hey, I’m just one of many other creatures on God’s earth, who maybe walks a bit outside the beaten path. And that’s fine too, that’s allowed to be. And that helped me a lot to get to know myself. Thank you.

Yes, great, thank you so much for that example. And here too, this process of understanding that Marc also talked about is behind it. So these aspects you brought up — at some point I started doubting myself, and only once I read that and started to understand, so to speak, that I’m wired a bit differently here, in quotes, and that this is quite legitimate too. So this understanding evidently plays a really important, essential role here about yourself. So I’m really curious. Johanna has joined too. A wonderful good morning, Johanna. What do you say about that?

Good morning, dear all. Yes, my biggest, well I don’t know about biggest, but an important self-knowledge for me was that my thoughts aren’t reality. I always imagined that what I think, that’s how the world is. The way I think it is, that’s how the world is, and what I think is true. And at some point I realized, these are my thoughts, and that’s neither reality nor is it truth. They’re simply just my thoughts. And then I started training my thoughts in a positive direction, in a direction that’s beneficial, pleasant, agreeable to me. So thinking things like, I’m doing this well, this is fine, how I’m doing this — so praising myself too, and through that everything changed for me.

Yes, great, thank you so much. And here too I find this aspect of change, initiating change, which Marc also mentioned, present too — that means, from this self-knowledge, looking at what do I actually do with it now? So possibly a change gets triggered, set in motion here too. That doesn’t always have to be the case, but it can definitely be the case. And regarding “that doesn’t always have to be the case,” I’d like to pick that up too. There are definitely aspects where we have self-knowledge, but the self-knowledge doesn’t necessarily always bring about a change either. Especially when it’s maybe a self-knowledge that’s unpleasant or painful or similar, of course it can be that it first gets realized once, but doesn’t necessarily always set a change in motion either. And I find that really fascinating, depending on what each of you believes — I always think, well, the universe throws the corresponding clubs at your feet again and again, in quotes, along the lines of, you haven’t had enough yet, here’s another one. And then sometimes you need to be held up to the mirror a few times, so to speak, until at some point, out of this self-knowledge, it’s not just perceived as self-knowledge, so to speak, but actually leads to saying, now it’s really enough, I’ve understood it, now I’m going into some kind of change, or into implementation — or maybe you’ve had such moments too, where you know that, and would like to connect to that too. Marc, Alex, Johanna, maybe you have cross-connections to the others too, gladly. Who’d like to?

Yes, gladly. I’m actually in such a process right now, and I’ve noticed that recently I’ve become more and more unhappy with what I do and how my life is going, and I’ve been telling myself, well, this is your dream life, you wanted to do it this way and that way, you wanted this location-independent work and so on, and you’re good at marketing too, and we’ve talked about that before too — and for me the break has actually now come. I’ve basically taken a sabbatical, I’m currently away from social media, I deactivated my LinkedIn profile, because I realized that the way it was going had taken a direction that no longer fits me, my personality, and above all my values. And I kept getting more and more unhappy, and people who’ve known me longer noticed too, and said, you’re radiating something, something’s up with you, what happened. And for me it’s currently a phase of withdrawal, where I go inward, where I say, I’m completely removing myself from everything. I’m really going back to my roots. I’m a trained psychological counselor and psychological coach, and I’ll go back more strongly into the direction of communication and personal development, that’s the scene I come from too, and I’m distancing myself more and more from this marketing, where things get louder and more hectic, because it no longer fits me either, and recognizing that, and also admitting that I’d taken a wrong path, or that it became wrong for me at some point, that was a process, because of course you cling to it and think, no, that works, or it worked, and it’ll somehow work out, and then you try something new here, something new there. No, it just doesn’t work anymore. When the inner person, when the inner human is screaming inside you like that and going on the defensive, and you’re just squatting like a little heap of misery, dead tired, in your subconscious corner, if I may put it that way, then it’s time to really hit the brakes and change something. And that’s what I’m doing right now. And that’s also a form of self-knowledge for me, to admit, so, you were wrong, or you weighed things wrong. Now it’s time to turn the wheel around again. Thanks for listening.

Yes, great, thank you so much for sharing. And this is a nice example for that, because, for example, the self-knowledge at this point, to start over and continue again, often requires the situation, so to speak, to say, now first a small break, first maybe a withdrawal. In this case it’s now a withdrawal, to also sort thoughts again, to consciously go into reflection here too, to have kind of a compass, so to speak, to see, what is it that I actually want or need right now? Where might I have gotten off the path onto a detour maybe? Those are often small detours we take, to then find our way back to ourselves, so to speak, and see where we get back onto the main path, in quotes. And this mode that then gets switched on is like a kind of search movement, I’ll just call it that, and needs a little moment too. That can be days, that can be weeks, depending on what it’s about, it can be a longer process too, and vary in length, and in this phase then also taking that time to realign the compass, and then walk again in the right direction for yourself, whatever that is individually and personally at that point. I saw, Marc, you wanted to add something too, and then I’d like to bring in Sabine in the round too.

I just want — today it’s you I’m hugging, Alex. I find this so brilliant, and you’re speaking right from my heart, and part of my self-knowledge is also accepting yourself the way you are, and all this marketing, all this drumming basically in life — when other people are supposed to show us the right path, my first thought is always, the path, I’m already walking it alone, you don’t need to show it to me. The only thing I can decide for myself is, if I’m walking too fast, I can ask someone, hey, there’s an edge coming up ahead, could I fall off there, does it go down there, that’s when I ask someone. But which direction I walk, I still decide that. And I find that so honest,

something so honest and really so personal, I haven’t heard in this room in a long time. And I think that’s really great, because I think that’s the first step. I know what I want, and I don’t need anyone to hold my hand. Unless I ask them to, and the direction I walk has to be good for me, not for you. And to come to that realization, dear Alex, I think that’s great. And what you describe with your feelings, I can really relate to that so much, great.

Yes, wonderful, thank you so much, and here’s another really important aspect too — what seems right for someone else isn’t necessarily what’s right for me either. So really differentiating here again too, and in that sense also emphasizing the self-knowledge, the self-discovery, the self-reflection, so emphasizing the “self” everywhere, which is also something really, really individual at that point. Of course I can let myself be accompanied by others in that, but not in the sense of “give me some advice” or something necessarily, but rather accompanying this process through questions, for example, or similar, if I want to use that, to maybe be able to recognize certain things faster or similar. But not through the “which direction does it have to go now” coming in from outside, but rather in the sense of letting yourself be supported, for example, to see, finding answers for yourself too, through the corresponding questions. Sabine, a wonderful good morning. What do you say about the topic?

A wonderful good morning. Hello Alex. My voice unfortunately isn’t fully back yet, but it’s better already. Yes, Alex, what you just said really spoke right from my heart. And I wanted to say to Marc briefly, you said I think just now that only you, or only I, know what I want. And I have to say, I don’t quite believe that, at least not 100 percent already recognized. Often, I think, you run in a direction where you think that would be the right one. That’s why I had that question to Johanna yesterday, and it helped me a lot, and it kept occupying me yesterday too, this life wheel. Yes, I’ve done that before too. Then you put numbers on it, and you’re quite happy that you’re doing it, and you also see, well, in these two areas “could you do a bit more?” And the next day you just march on. And I think often it’s things like now with you, Alex, that you’re somehow foolishly happy with the direction. Or for me it was also, among other things, my husband’s illness. Where I simply said, hello, hamster wheel? No, no hamster wheel. And take a step back and think about it. Here the kids are pulling, there’s this, here’s the post, tomorrow another post, and, and, and. Are you even successful in that regard? Are you happy there? And I also took a step back there, and said, actually I am happy. Actually I’m successful in my field, which someone just confirmed to me again, our managing director, who says, you’re doing a great job, and you yourself always think bigger, further. And from that side, Alex, I find what you just said really great. I’m trying to take that to heart a bit too, so that, like Johanna formulated it yesterday, you live the individual spokes of the life wheel more consciously again, and not just focus on visibility. I mean, I settled into TikTok once, and thought, hello, that’s not for me, and I don’t find my customers there either. Why give myself that stress? So, great, Alex, thank you.

Yes, wonderful, thank you so much. And especially the example you just brought up with Johanna yesterday at the authors’ breakfast, that’s also a nice example of this distinction we opened up too. Not in the sense of already giving an answer to what’s right for you at that point, Sabine, but it was an impulse with the life wheel, saying, look at that again. I don’t know if you know it. Maybe it helps you. And you’d already engaged with the life wheel. And that was then, so to speak, the impulse or the reminder that set something in motion again, so to speak. And that’s a nice example of how, from outside, an impulse can also contribute to going into reflection, picking something up, and finding answers for yourself again too. Wonderful. Sonja, a wonderful good morning. What do you say about the topic?

A wonderful good morning to the round. I hope I can stay a bit longer, because I’m waiting for a service technician, so if he comes I’ll have to drop off. I think today’s round is really personal, and that’s the reason I feel like joining too, because there are also two insights in my life that were, I’d say, very decisive for me in the last, let’s say, ten years, to actually solidify my position in life at all. Because I want to live a very conscious life, and lead it too, in the sense of, I want to lead myself, and there have been the following two insights that have been decisive for me over the last ten years. The first was that through getting to know, or encountering, the love of my life, I found out for myself that it’s more important to me to have someone by my side whom I love completely, and who’s also willing to walk a certain path with me, regardless of whether some illnesses or other limitations stand in the way. Because in this relationship it was clear to me from the start that there were a few psychological hindrances on her side. And that ultimately led to the separation too, which I still accompanied for years, and went through some valleys. And I kept asking myself, is this really my very top priority for me? Because the price was very high. And I have to say, yes, I kept arriving at the same result, that it’s worth it to me, as they say so nicely, in good times as in bad. So that was the first insight, that this is really my very top value for me, and top priority. I want to love fully, and live that with all the consequences too. The second insight I gained is on the professional side — that it’s essentially important for me to be free, and to make decisions according to my convictions, that I put my heart topics, this neuroscience stuff, the empathetic approach, customer orientation, or recipient-oriented communication, at the very top in business, and not put marketing or strategy first, but the person. In my time as an employee, before I became self-employed, I was so often taught differently, and it always felt wrong. And since I’ve been doing it differently for myself, the relationships, the business relationships, have become so much more intense, so much more mature, so much more honest, deeper. I called it yesterday deeper, more conscious, more fulfilling, and that’s exactly an essential insight for me, that I need that in business. And if I already have these two pillars now, what matters most to me privately, and what matters most to me in business, then those are already two extremely valuable insights I can lead a very good life with. And a little bit of the insight about health comes in there too, how important it is to exercise regularly to keep the psyche and body in such shape that it supports me in all these personal and professional things too. Because especially when it comes to crises, it’s essentially important to take care of these aspects, and they also help you distract yourself well and get back into your power. So that’s already three insights from three life areas. And with those I’m making really good progress, and keep opening myself up for new impulses, new encounters, and I notice I’m continuously growing. And this growth is happening faster and faster, because I keep recognizing things faster, and it’s just lovely. That’s how life becomes really fun. Thank you.

Yes, wonderful, thank you so much. And on one hand this makes clear again that there are different life areas in relation to self-knowledge we can open up here, so different life areas. We’ve now had private, professional, health in there. So even if we look at the life wheel now, those are also different areas. And the other aspect I find really fascinating too, which I’d like to open up as an impulse, and then let’s gladly bring in Stefan too, and then we can make cross-connections again — is the aspect, we’ve talked about one thing already, meaning, I might have had an insight in the past, possibly got sidetracked somehow along the way in the meantime, and now find my way back again, through renewed self-knowledge, self-reflection happening, to the path where I actually originally felt I belong. That’s one thing. The other is, and here we’re at this personal growth, Sonja, that you brought up — I keep developing further too. And against the background that I’m developing further, self-knowledge can also mean, and I’d like to give an example here, that I suddenly notice, something’s changed here, and something no longer fits. But not against the background that I somehow got off the path and took a detour without noticing, but because I’ve personally developed further and somehow need something different right now. And especially in relation to acquaintances and personal contacts this is interesting, and you might know this situation — you maybe have an acquaintance, a friendship, regardless of how often you hear from or see each other now or however — and then there’s this moment where you notice, in the conversation, in exchange, somehow I’m not really quite here anymore. Somehow what’s being talked about right now isn’t quite what carries this relevance for me anymore. And often it’s more of a creeping process, that it builds up, that it doesn’t happen from one moment to the next, but that you often have this feeling that something’s not quite a hundred percent right at that point, but not against the background of me somehow having lost my way, but against the background that I’ve changed and suddenly notice that relevances are different here. That doesn’t mean the other person is suddenly somehow not okay, or fine, or anything, sometimes those are also really, really deep friendships or similar, that also look back on a long shared history, so also handling that very appreciatively, so to speak, with the person, with the situation, and also with yourself, and still, for example, then reflecting and thinking about how do I want to handle this for myself, how do I want to look at that for myself again so it feels good again. That doesn’t mean I then completely hang up this acquaintance or friendship, or something, but for example reducing the contact further or similar, so it does me good again too, so I don’t have the feeling somehow I’m not quite right here right now. And the other person feels that too, at that point. So also looking at how I handle that too. I’d like to give that as an impulse too, maybe someone wants to connect to that later, and with that I’d like to bring in Stefan first. A wonderful good morning. What do you say about that?

Yes, good morning, Yasemin. Good morning to everyone here on stage, and generally in the room too. Well, generally it’s the case that with this whole thing — I’ve been traveling until now, that’s why I didn’t join earlier. But this is a really great round too. So I still wanted to get my thoughts off my chest though. With the topic of self-knowledge, because it’s almost a daily companion for me — not my own self-knowledge, but that of other people who basically commission me to some extent to help them find out and see, am I a good entrepreneur, am I a good businessperson in every regard. So not just the skills, but also generally as a person in the leadership role and so on. That’s an insanely complex process, we’ve basically now, in a lot of rooms here, over these many days here, actually presented for ourselves how the processes work there. And I think with self-knowledge it’s enormously important, of course we’ll probably also talk about self-reflection tomorrow, which is of course very important, that there’s no self-deception happening, that we don’t fool ourselves, but really go through this process very honestly, or engage with it. I needed some time too. That’s also true across generations, where I’ve always asked myself, how does one generation think about the other, and how does one generation tick, how does the other tick? And that’s of course always important in dealing with them, especially if you have children, you have another kind of reflection, a very, very honest, direct one, from your own children too. And I find that really, really good, because that’s often helped me too, for example, I took it very, very seriously when my children told me certain things they didn’t like so much. And personally I’ve noticed that on one hand I like helping people, no matter what — I’m always there for my closest circle of friends, for my family of course. But I also help the neighbors if there’s something going on. There I’m actually selfless, drop everything and help when needed. But I also have a healthy egoism. And that was, for a while, a self-knowledge, or also a reflection from others, where I said, this kind of egoism, to what extent is it also healthy to a certain degree? Yes, and I do think you should think about when is egoism bad for others, and when is it good for yourself? Because I’ll say, if I’m not egotistical, then I can’t, for example, set these priorities myself, which was also mentioned, how I handle everything. So ultimately that’s a really complex process that certainly won’t end with one conversation, but actually takes years. But I think it’s then really, really important, and maybe just briefly the last sentence here to Alex, I find that of course enormously important, once you’ve made this realization for yourself, to then walk this path. That’s of course very, very courageous, but it’s of course also extremely consistent, and there it’s always important that you have the right people at your side too.

Yes, absolutely, thank you so much, and you basically brought up two more aspects. One is, children can also be unvarnished, in quotes, uncomfortably honest. Of course that’s also a subjective perspective to some extent, but ultimately also to get a kind of feedback, to be able to check one thing or another again too. That’s another important aspect, whether that’s your own children, or a third party we’re talking about. And then this aspect with egoism, I find that really fascinating and important to pick up in this context too, and look more closely at what that has to do with this concept of egoism too, and how we locate that at this point too, what does me good, or also what does others good, or in reverse can be bad. And I’m really curious about that. So let’s gladly go into cross-connections. Whoever would like to add something, flash your mic briefly, then I can look at the corresponding order too. Who’d like to connect to one point or another and add something?

Yes, gladly, Johanna. I just wanted to tell Alex how much it touched me, what she shared. Because I’ve, well I left Schlapphausen a long time ago, I’m rarely there, and I see the people I’ve met on LinkedIn, on Instagram, and on the various social platforms. I always saw your posts and thought, brilliant, so eye-catching, so good, how you do that. And now to see, aha, okay, that wasn’t the right path for you after all. I’m happy for you that you took this step, so to speak, to find yourself, and figure out what you need for yourself. And to simply switch tracks and take a different direction, in a daily direction. Yes, that touched me.

Thank you so much, Johanna, if I may respond to that directly. First I’d like to go back to Sonja. As for the topic of movement and personal changes, and also brain performance, that’s a really important topic. I like it for myself too now — I move more, I’m regularly outside with my new dog, who’s very challenging. I’ve lost weight, I have more energy, I can think better, I’m more focused, I’m clearer. So that’s a really important area, especially regarding the life wheel too, physical fitness, mental fitness. Thank you so much again for bringing that up. And then, Johanna, I’ll keep making such great posts, it just won’t be about online business building or marketing anymore, but back in my core competence. And that’s the topic of communication, that’s the topic of understanding people, it’s the topic of potential unfolding. But my branding and my way of writing, and my cheeky sharp tongue, those remain. All good, you can keep following me. Thank you, Johanna.

Great, thank you so much. And I think what’s really lovely to witness here too, especially in this room, is what resonance that finds. So Alex, that you opened this door and enabled this view, and this authenticity, so to speak, what role that plays in this context too, and what power it unfolds too — I find that really lovely, being able to observe that again, especially in this room. And I saw that Sabine wanted to add something too, and then gladly Johanna again afterward, if you’d like.

Yes, I wanted to say something quickly to Stefan. Like he says, he listens to his kids, or he heard that from the kids. I have to say, that’s exactly the same for me. But I also have to see, if I look at how I reacted to my parents, how do my kids react to me? I have to say, a lot has happened generationally too. With my mother, I wouldn’t have given so much feedback. Nonetheless it was clear to me that I learned a lot from that. My mother was allowed to be a housewife and mother, that would have been a punishment for me. I don’t think I’d have three children if I were a housewife and mother. So I think a lot has changed over time there too. And so I’m firmly convinced that from myself to my children, a lot has already changed again. And so I try to let the kids walk their own path too, because it’ll be a completely different one from mine again. And I think it’s great when they come back and give feedback, and ask too, and we exchange ideas. But I also always try to say, hello, that’s a step further. I also try, among my peers, in my age group, I hear so often, my goodness, I wouldn’t want to be young today anymore, they all have it so hard. What? That’s not true at all. They have completely different opportunities. So I think a lot, a lot — no, more and more happens every day toward the generation. But great thing, Stefan, from you, thank you.

Yes, wonderful, thank you so much. Johanna?

I actually just wanted to tell Alex, yes, I’ll maybe reach out to you. That’s it.

Yes, great, thank you so much. So here we see so many, many different aspects we can bring in. On one hand there’s self-knowledge, meaning whether it’s a search mode, whether it’s a rediscovery mode, whether it’s an “I got sidetracked from the path, briefly, let me see that I get back” into the core competence, into the core passion and so on again. Or whether I’ve actually personally developed further, and against this background of my own personal development — and this isn’t better or worse than the other, in quotes, but simply that we, especially in partnerships or relationships too, can also often observe this, that maybe at some point we suddenly started taking different paths, and developing further in different directions too. And that doesn’t mean the other person’s path is somehow bad, or better or worse than mine, but simply that it’s become a different path. And here too, going into the comparison, stepping into this reflection process, and from that, based on the insights I gain here for myself, also making decisions again. And there we’re back at yesterday’s authors’ breakfast, how important these decisions are at that point too. Alex, you wanted to add something here too.

Right. If you develop, your environment basically develops either in the same direction too, which is of course desirable, or in a different direction, because we have different life models and different life concepts. I noticed this with a long friendship — we were friends for 20 years. She got pregnant, and then the topic of course only revolved around kids, and whatnot, and she took a completely different step in life. And I built up my business, and built and supported companies and everything, and at some point I noticed, when the phone rang and I saw her name, I’m not happy about it anymore. I’m not happy about the call anymore, about the conversation with this person, and Yasemin, you know me a bit by now too. I’m then very consistent and very straight, and said, listen my dear, this is how it is. It was a nice time with you, we had a great time. We have different life concepts. I’m not happy anymore when you call. We have nothing more to say to each other, and I’d suggest we free up the spot in our hearts now for someone who fits us better. And that’s, that’s my way of dealing with it. The other person can of course stay quiet about a lot, but that’s just how it is. Some people accompany us for part of our path, some just cross it. Some just do a short bling and then are gone again. But there’s a reason for every person in our lives, why they’re with us, next to us, or with us for a certain time. Thank you.

Yes, absolutely. A really, really nice example you brought up. And here too there are quite different possibilities for what fits us personally, and how we deal with it. I’ve had the experience, for example, with a very, very long friendship, going back so many years, so to speak, that my concept there, for example, is that when we do talk on the phone, when we do get together, which doesn’t happen often anyway, we can use that time, and I find this really lovely by the way, to just live in memories, in quotes. So really deliberately looking at what we’re actually talking about. So less directed toward the future in the exchange, or the current situation — you can give a brief update, but definitely use such times too to let memories bloom again, which I actually find really, really valuable. And that shows again, not as, that this is a better way to handle it or something, Alex, but that depending on how it fits us, personality-wise too, we have different options and possibilities to handle such situations accordingly, and to choose what fits ourselves at that point too. That can always be totally different individually, and depending on that just make a decision and act accordingly. Stefan, did you want to add something here too?

Yes, because with the aspect Alex just shared here, regarding friends or fellow travelers, that’s a really important topic. That’s also an insight that saves you a lot of things you no longer want to experience, or where you don’t have any time or space anymore. And that’s of course very courageous, and you should really be very clear about whether that’s the right step. But if you have friends who’ve accompanied you for a certain time, and you’ve had the realization, that was a nice time, that was fun, we did each other good, but now somehow recently I notice it doesn’t make sense anymore, or whatever, then it’s really, really important to say so, because none of us has that much time. And then it’s actually nicer if you’re open for others. So that you also get to know new people. You should always do that generally anyway. Not to get rid of old friends, but generally, to always broaden your mindset. And we live in a rapidly developing, or developing, society too. And I always find it interesting generally to exchange with more people, more cultures. So that doesn’t mean, in reverse, that you should break off from friends. But if you notice, over a certain period, that it just doesn’t make sense anymore, then you have to be brave and take that step. That’s why I found it good that you brought that up too. I’ve noticed that too. And the other thing I wanted to say, about self-knowledge. A lot of people always smirk at that. Yes, I was in a monastery for a month, or I just had to go away for a week to learn things about myself, or reflect. That’s a really, really important process happening there. It should preferably not happen within your own four walls. Or, from a business perspective, not in your own office space either, or wherever you work. You should actually look for places that first, I’ll say, give peace, or that are simply different, nicer. And above all, where I also have the time, without checking emails or other things somehow, where I just take one, two days to think about myself, so the insight I’ve gained so far, or the reflection, gets mirrored, to then be able to make decisions. That’s also an important aspect, I think.

Yes, wonderful, thank you so much. And that also brings to mind, Patrik Wenke also talked repeatedly about the rendezvous with myself. So here too, whether that’s in the form of a longer withdrawal, or regularly in small units, yes, making appointments with yourself too, to take time for yourself. Small nuances, that also got mentioned in the interview, maybe really casually, in a side sentence — something like, for example, meanwhile, when I go running, I don’t listen to music anymore either, but then I’m with myself. Those are small subtleties, if we think more closely about it, also in relation to insight and self-knowledge. We often tend, even in these break moments we have, to “drone ourselves out” again with music or other distractions we use for ourselves during this break, in whatever form. And I don’t want to say music doesn’t do us good or anything with that. But it does make a difference whether I really “switch off” everything, and within the framework of, for example, a rendezvous with myself, or a retreat in a monastery or such, where I really engage with myself, my thoughts, my inner self, and create this space too, at different intervals. So everyone has to decide for themselves at what intervals I do this, in what form. Maybe there are shorter segments where I do that, regularly, in short nuances, and then at longer intervals also taking more time for myself again, to keep sorting thoughts, feelings and so on again, to just open up this space at all, to see what’s there, without knowing what will come of it, just to open up the space so that something can emerge from it. Similar to here on Clubhouse, we go in with a topic, so to speak, and say, let’s see what emerges from the room. And with these breaks we take, really switching off these influences from outside, in quotes, to some extent, to just see what happens when I focus on myself. And it’s magical what can emerge here. And only once I do myself good, once I take the time for myself at this point too, going into this withdrawal, so to speak, moments of retreat, can I then, through what emerges from that, also do good for others again, in quotes, whatever that good may be. Would you like to add something else, or let’s do it this way, we still have a few minutes, we can gladly make cross-connections again in the closing round if you’d like, and if you make a cross-connection, then directly afterward also underline your highlight, so to speak, from the room today. In the order Marc, Alex, Sabine, Stefan, please.

I’ve come to the self-knowledge again today, that it can definitely be right if we don’t necessarily always take the path where we absolutely want to please others. Thanks for listening.

Oh wonderful, thank you so much. Alex?

Oh god, it was so incredibly much again. I found it lovely today, I just want to give that back. I found it great how many dared again, and opened up. And I was happy to be able to join again after a long absence. Thank you so much, Yasemin.

Yes, wonderful, thank you so much. It was really lovely to have you with us again, dear Alex. Sabine.

Yes, I can only agree. I just wanted to say one more thing. At the first coaching I attended, the speaker said, you’re always a reflection of the five people in your environment, and when you go home now, don’t talk about it at all, because the people at home stayed there, and you’re already further along now. And I have to say, I found that very wrong. But it also took me a long time to gather this insight, that it depends on how much you care about the people at home. Meanwhile I’ve brought my husband along, and he shares my opinion. So I think you shouldn’t see it too extremely and say, I’m closing a door there. Because I also see a lot of divorces in my circle of friends now — they went their separate ways. Whether that was always the reason, I don’t know, those are always quite different things. But if I’d resolutely left back then and hadn’t brought him along, who knows where we’d be today. But now we talk about it, meanwhile we did coaching together, meanwhile we both filled out the life wheel, and we found a completely different level. And so I think, it also belongs to it, to make an effort, and when nothing works anymore, then that’s how it is. But I wanted to say that too. That was also an insight that took me a very, very long time. Thank you, and have a nice day.

Yes, great, thank you so much. Stefan?

Yes, first of all thank you all for being so honest, and also having the courage to be honest. And it’s certainly also a good piece of advice, generally not always just presenting the nicest picture of yourself in glittering colors. We all have things we should actually address. And it always makes sense to be honest with yourself, to yourself, but also honest toward others. And I think that’s actually how you get the best picture. And yes, that’s actually the insight for me. And otherwise I just have one more thing, because I like browsing through small, nice books sometimes. On this topic, a book comes to mind, called “A Break at the Café at the End of the World — A Reunion With Your Own Self.” It’s humorous, but actually really nicely written on this topic. That would be my book recommendation.

Yes, great, thank you so much. And with that we’ve arrived again at another end of a room. Today about self-knowledge part 2, because we didn’t manage part 1 to really talk that intensively about self-knowledge. I’m glad we opened up this part 2 because of that, and took the time today to really dive deeper into it. And I find it great, what examples came up too, with what openness this topic was approached too, with what honesty at that point, and bringing in these different colors, differences, distinctions, different perspectives, which will certainly let us connect tomorrow too, when we continue with the topic of self-knowledge and self-reflection. And I’m really looking forward to that too, because this reflection has already resonated quite strongly today. What role do self-reflection and self-observation play in self-knowledge, or gaining insight? That’s what we want to engage with more deeply tomorrow. I’m already looking forward to it. I think tomorrow will be another really, really fascinating room too. And that we’ll go in again with different thoughts, examples, and simply see where the room takes us in shared exchange, and what insights, quite generally, we can pull out for ourselves again from the impulses that get brought together here, and that let us continue step by step, a bit further, again. In that sense, I wish you a really, really great day, and I’m looking forward to everyone joining again tomorrow at 8am in Deep Talk. Until then.