Brain Food for Pioneering Spirits: How far have we actually come with space travel and the exploration of other planets — and how much of our everyday life already runs on space science without us noticing? In Room #875 of the Deep Talk Club, under our overarching theme “Pioneering Spirit with brAIn,” the group digs into Elon Musk as a misunderstood entrepreneur, why we fear sharks more than mosquitoes, the childlike curiosity behind every scientific breakthrough, and the everyday technologies — from Google Maps to cordless drills — that trace back to the space program. Listen in on the examples that came up and the perspectives that emerged in dialogue…
Note: This session was recorded live in German as part of the Deep Talk Club, so the video above is German-language audio only. What follows is an English translation of the conversation, lightly edited for readability — the back-and-forth between the moderator and participants is preserved, but the original timestamps and speaker names have been left out.
A wonderful good morning to you all. Yes, today we’re continuing with space travel as our room topic under the umbrella Pioneering Spirit with Brain. Where do we stand with developments in space travel and the exploration of other planets? That’s what we want to look at today, and see together in this exchange. What do we actually know? What do we pick up on? What’s behind it all? And basically we can say that space travel also means, to some extent, space science in general. So how far along are we, basically? Starting with various missions, whether moon, Mars missions or similar, all the way to observations of what’s happening around us, defense against meteorites, and so on. A relatively wide range falls under this — not just leaving Earth to explore other planets, but also everything we’ve gathered as information over time about our universe, and how we use that for ourselves in a positive sense too, to protect humanity, for example. And I’m really curious what different aspects come together here. So this morning, as always, you’re warmly invited to join in and bring your first impulses, thoughts, so we can see, in dialogue, which direction the room develops in today too. With that, just a reminder again, that today’s room is being recorded too and will be published afterward. So if you join, you automatically agree to that. And we have three small room rules — a profile photo where you’re clearly recognizable, last name, and at least one sentence in your bio. And with that I’ll gladly mute myself and see who’d like to join first, to bring in the first impulses together with me in this exchange. And then I of course hope we can expand this round further, so we get different perspectives on it too. So, with that, who’d like to start with me today? A wonderful good morning, dear Erik.
Good morning, dear Yasemin. Yes, let me start with the topic. What I was thinking about is basically the current phase that space travel and development in space, in space research and so on, is in. For me this is right now a transition from government-run and research-based to the privatized sector, and then also with an economic background. Space travel kind of started in the 50s, 60s with government programs and research things, and in between it was also about power, that’s certainly always the case, even today, and exploring new things. And now we’re seeing a new wave of momentum again with a lot of private companies actively involved in space research, in space travel, and additionally, in today’s world, through social media for example, there are ways to gain attention for these things too. And, well, what I see happening from my perspective is, more and more, that these things become economically interesting, and space travel becomes, step by step, part of everyday life, so to speak. And that’s already the case in large part today — satellite communication and weather observation, things like that, are already economically used products of space travel that are part of everyday life today, and there’s probably going to be more of that, not just in the sense that it becomes normal to vacation on the moon or something, but also indirect things — like, today you already have the option to use satellites, for example, in city planning or something like that, using satellite images. Anyone can look at the whole world from a satellite perspective on Google Maps today, and environmental and agricultural things, and these applications will probably become more and more normal, and probably more accessible for smaller companies too, as it becomes easier and easier to put satellites into orbit, and so this development will continue. That would be my starting point.
Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. And yes, and here we’re actually allowed to make a distinction too, as you already said — if we look at space travel, so what’s the current state and so on — then we’re talking, in this context, about space travel in the sense of since the ability was created to actually get to the moon, or maybe look in other directions too, collect samples and so on, whereas space science in general reaches back much further, and is one of the oldest fields in the sciences. If we take astronomy itself, for example, the study of stars — that means there have already been options for a long time, first pure observation of the stars, all the way to telescopes and so on, to, based on observations made, equations established, in physics too, for example, make calculations and so on. And based on that, make one thing or another accessible as knowledge for humanity, and put forward various theories, to then increasingly compare and verify these theories again, and then, with space travel, one thing or another that then experienced a massive acceleration in a lot of places, precisely through this accessibility — you used this term “accessibility” too, Erik — because of that an acceleration happened, massively so again. And we observe this in various sciences, that a lot of things first get worked out in theory, concepts get created, various hypotheses exist, which get tested, through various equations and so on, both in the natural sciences and in other fields too. And then, through technological progress for example, the option arises to suddenly gain access too. And if we make a comparison here with neuroscience — that science has existed for a long time too, but only in recent decades, because technology has advanced so far, and there are completely different possibilities now, and a lot has been invented, like how to examine the brain accordingly, this accessibility has been achieved, and through this path, which always goes hand in hand with the technologies that make it possible, that open this door, completely different insights, and at a completely different speed, can be gained too, which is also really exciting to observe. And the first access usually comes through theory, calculations, and so on, and then, through technologization, a massive development takes place in terms of how quickly new insights can be generated, and above all, how old ones can be verified, for example. I find that really, really exciting too. Would you like to add to that, Erik?
Yes, gladly. Things come to mind like — at the beginning, people just looked up at the sky with their eyes, then developed optical instruments, at some point moved up a mountain because you’re a bit closer there and maybe have less light pollution. Then, through space travel, the option arises to send out space telescopes. And if you think this further, of course there’s also, in the field of research, if you have the option to build infrastructure on the moon or on Mars, for example — I’m thinking, I don’t know, particle accelerators on Mars. I’m not a scientist in that field, but I could imagine that some very interesting new things could emerge there too. And you also mentioned the keyword asteroid defense — if you have the option to observe from other planets, for example, or possibly launch concrete defense measures against celestial bodies threatening us, then that’s the foundation you’re creating to even get there and build infrastructure there in the first place. And the ISS is an example of research facilities that are no longer located on the surface of Earth too. So, mega exciting, what’s all possible there.
Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. And it’s really exciting here too, to look at space travel not just as space travel, but really also as space science, and see what actually comes to mind, what’s connected to this, so to speak, what’s already being used or applied for us, what might already be so self-evident to us by now, because we grew up with it, in inverted commas, that we don’t even consciously perceive or realize one thing or another anymore. So meteorite defense is just one topic. But we can also look, for example, in the direction of satellites or something — what do they actually enable for us, and how does that get used for humanity? Those would be other aspects. And then of course you can look at it from various perspectives again too — what concerns exist in this context, possibly pros and cons, and so on. So opening up different perspectives and looking at it that way. So we can gladly gather a bit more here too, if you think of further aspects, especially with the keyword satellites, for example, we can gladly follow up on that too. I’d like to bring in Layla first now. A wonderful good morning, dear Layla, what do you say about this topic?
A wonderful good morning. I notice that space travel isn’t my core competency, so I’ll approach this like a child. And I just thought about what I thought about this as a teenager. I wrote my essay on this for my final exams, and I didn’t get a good grade for it. I understand why by now, because my arguments weren’t good — I said, why should we go into space? We should rather take care of the problems on Earth. And we’d have so much to do here. And it would also be that we could invest the money better. And why do we want to flee? That was phrased a bit sharply, I have to say, and it lacked an argumentative foundation. Because, honestly, as a young woman, I loved watching Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generation and things like that. And a lot of things really have, as you all said, moved us forward a lot. So I’m unfortunately not that deep into the topic. But I believe a lot has come from it medically. I’m still a bit stuck on Star Trek, and wonder, when will we get to the point where I can say, I’d like to eat this and that, and it just appears? That sounds pretty strange now, I know, but honestly, we can already grow meat now. People have been working on things like that, partly because our resources are dwindling. And of course you could say, why do we even want to go there? Shouldn’t we rather keep our Earth in good condition? And still, a lot has emerged because of it. And I’m curious what you all say about that, and curious how you’ll react to the childlike way I’m approaching this.
Yes, thank you, thank you so much. I like this childlike approach, because we’ve had this in various contexts — that it’s not at all about being an expert in a field, but approaching one thing or another with a certain curiosity, like a child, to explore it for ourselves. And what do children do? They ask a lot of questions and are curious to explore, so to speak. And you brought up medicine and so on too — that means there are a lot of interconnections here too. On one hand there were developments regarding the first astronauts, or the training of astronauts, in connection with space travel. How do you deal with that? What kind of nutrition, independent of certain training and so on that takes place — it’s also about food consumption, for example, if you’re on a space mission and have to complete a mission. And a lot of things need to be looked at in connection with these missions too. Because things like dietary supplements, for example, originally have their roots connected with these missions, and then got picked up in other places too, in other contexts, privatized, made accessible in a business context too, for example, and a huge industry emerged from that, for example. So that’s one example. On the other hand, there are the insights that get gathered. We talked recently about how the first people involved in these missions had no idea at all what would actually happen to the body — how does that actually work? They had calculations, they had ideas, but to actually experience it, so to speak, what actually happens, and how it affects the body, for example, and picking up these insights again to lay further groundwork for other fields — not just to further expand this field itself, but also in terms of the effects it has on other fields, neighboring fields, and so on. So I find that really exciting. Erik, would you like to add to that too?
Yes, there’s one point I’d like to pick up. Thanks, Layla, for bringing up whataboutism. You hear that in a lot of fields, and especially often in space travel, or in space research — why should we research that as long as we still have other problems here that need solving first. The question is of course legitimate at first, but it doesn’t really end there if you think it through further — how is that supposed to work in practice, should the physicist or the space engineer call up Putin and say, hey, listen, we want to keep going here, could you stop the war? You can spin all kinds of scenarios like this, and which professions would that even affect? Should the baker stop baking too, should the police officer stop doing anything, should no houses be built as long as other problems still exist? Well, that’s what I wanted to bring up briefly on this topic. Otherwise, research and development in this field, like in any other technology, has certain prerequisites, and of course certain priorities get set. I’m thinking, for example, of software development and control systems — all of that, if a machine is out in space and has to do everything autonomously, and you can’t even communicate with it in real time. Certain methods were developed in software development there that then also have applications in smartphones, for example — both in the method of how it gets developed, and of course also in how the software itself behaves, so that you get real time reactions and so on. A lot of things just flow into the normal, everyday field eventually. LEDs are one example, and apparently cordless power tools too — cordless drills. That was it from me.
Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. And there are a lot of aspects here. As I said, when we think of space travel or something like that, it’s usually only connected with certain things, often, and I think that’s a limitation in our thinking — that it somehow only has to do with, let’s say, “emigrating,” in inverted commas, to other planets, whether that’s space tourism or spinning thoughts about maybe being able to settle other planets long-term. That’s one perspective, but that’s basically a relatively narrow perspective to begin with. If we broaden this, and just pick up this term “satellites” again, which I brought in — what do we use all of that for? Let’s take Google Earth as an example. How does that actually work, ultimately? Those are satellite images that get taken, processed, and then made accessible here. So whether we look in the direction of navigation systems, or other directions — there are a lot, a lot of examples where we already use and apply things connected to this today, completely as a matter of course. And so it’s exciting to really look at it from this perspective too, not just in the sense of, well, maybe leaving planet Earth to possibly continue on somewhere else. So, satellites is one example — we could also talk about raw materials, for example. Here too you can look at it from various perspectives, both positive and negative. But raw material collection and utilization from space is also a big topic. And I’m curious with these impulses what other aspects might come into play too. And I’d like to warmly bring in Jürgen at this point too. A wonderful good morning, dear Jürgen.
Good morning, dear Yasemin. Good morning everyone in the room. I unfortunately have to keep it short today, but I still feel triggered to accentuate one point you brought up a few minutes ago, namely the connection to neuroscience. And by now, thanks to what you’ve shared with us, we know that our reptilian brain is shaped by two essential states and reactions — namely, on one hand, weighing what threatens me, and on the other, weighing what benefits me, what generates a benefit for me. And for me, the development of space research — I have to broaden this to space travel, you already touched on the terminology, I’ll broaden it further — of space research and its use, is actually an example of the implementation of our reptilian brain, and in the development, especially over the last 50 years since World War II, the pendulum is definitely leaning more toward the benefit side, the insight that science and engaging with space travel can generate more benefit for us than it’s perceived as a threat. And for me that’s a science I connect with a well-known saying — let ideas fly, turn them into concrete visions, and define the corresponding goals from that, because the benefit, quite obviously the topic of overpopulation, resource scarcity, just to name examples, is increasingly winning out over our reptilian-brain area of what threatens us, reaching us. Sorry that I’m a bit out of breath right now, but I wish you a good continuation of the discussion, and have a nice day. Thank you for listening, everyone.
Yes, great, thank you, thank you so much, dear Jürgen. And yes, I’m curious right away what Erik and Layla have to say about this too. Maybe a quick note here, because I saw Marc trying to join — I’ve tried several times already to bring you in, Marc. I don’t know if you changed your mind, or if it’s not working for technical reasons. If it’s clearly a technical issue, give some kind of sign via chat or however, and then I can see if I can maybe hand moderation to Erik or someone, so we can try again — just so I know, and so you know too. Right. And yes, that means we have a lot of aspects here that we can open up under this term of space research and its use for us, so to speak. There are a lot, a lot of examples, all the way to having or picking up visions too. Yes, let me just take Elon Musk as an example here. One of his visions is actually real, and various things have emerged from it too — considering how access to Mars, for example, could actually succeed in a way that might allow living there in the future, as a question mark, and against the backdrop that he recognizes and sees a lot, a lot of problems too. And here we had aspects like overpopulation, the keyword resource scarcity, and so on, which lead people to think about alternatives too. And especially regarding the discussions around electric cars or something, if you know interviews with him, it’s really, really exciting to see that he doesn’t have this claim at all, along the lines of, EVs are the cure-all or something — quite the opposite, he even puts forward his own calculations of how long it would probably take if you were to say, at some point we’ll only have EVs on Earth. And that all takes, basically, in inverted commas, far too long. Nonetheless, nothing speaks against taking one measure or another, in inverted commas, to possibly — and this is the approach behind it, and I find that really exciting — to possibly extend the time we have, in case one thing or another on Earth should go wrong and we get a real problem, to extend this time we have, so to speak, on the other hand, because we need this time — science needs time, research needs time — to use this time, this extended time we get, to advance with our developments, regarding other planets, to see what possibilities we can generate, what insights and progress, technological progress too, we can bring into harmony here, to not just explore one thing or another, but really generate groundbreaking new insights for ourselves here too, and create possibilities too. And I’m really curious, looking at this as a whole. Erik, Layla, would you like to add to that too?
Yes, I think Elon Musk is one of the most misunderstood entrepreneurs of our time. I’ve watched videos on YouTube too, interviews, where he walks through the SpaceX factory with a famous space YouTuber, and really talks about things on a technical level, and that’s a completely different picture than the one that’s often painted publicly. Of course he has many facets — on one hand I consider him a highly intelligent person, and that’s also reflected in his biography, someone who really understands things and genuinely has technical knowledge. But he also has, in combination, the side that, as Jürgen said, he can basically speak to a human need, namely the need for exploration and discovering new things. He says this himself too, that you basically wake up in the morning and feel like experiencing new things, and are curious what else might come. And, yes, that was the bridge I wanted to build, toward what Jürgen said, that this desire to discover is also a human need, which, in my view, is also why this won’t stop, that research will continue, and that we’ll keep pushing forward.
Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. Yes, go ahead, Layla.
I was just thinking to myself — Elon Musk is a keyword for us where, on one hand, well, I know a lot of people who think he’s absolutely great, that he’s intelligent, that’s undeniable, that’s just how it is. Whether his achievements, whether he does all of that to create benefits for humanity, or for others, maybe for himself too — that gets questioned again and again, I think. Of course you could take other people too — I don’t want to talk him up or down, just present it, because I think we always have this with people, when there are certain power dynamics, it’s about, okay, how do we see this now, do they mean well by us or not. Regardless of how it may be, a lot of things have been initiated by him, as far as I know, and I find that fundamentally a good thing. And I think you have to look at this approach we mentioned, this childlike quality, that you also keep moving forward. And, well, how is it at the start? You get considered crazy. I think back to Enterprise again, and all the movies we’ve already seen — if you watch Star Trek movies, or anything with science fiction — that used to be so far away from us, and now it’s gotten a lot closer to us. We can’t imagine now what it’s like to work with artificial intelligence — we could imagine what it’s like to artificially produce things. Also, with the vitamins, what you said — I thought, yes, you’re right, Yasemin. Either it’s a mission to get somewhere, and unfortunately it was also war that led to these achievements. And, yes, we’re changing, and I think that’s a good thing. And think about all the movies you’ve seen, and a lot of things we always considered crazy, that we couldn’t even imagine at all. I mean, I’m turning 45 now — when I watched Star Trek, I thought, never ever. And think of the movie “Back to the Future” — I think there’s actually a hoverboard by now. And yes, we owe that to people like Elon Musk too. We owe that to people like Bill Gates too. And, yes, it’s true that they accumulate a lot economically, that we don’t really know their interests — that’s correct. And that’s why we should all be innovative, because I think innovation is inherent in humans. And this drive to move forward, to develop further, is also inherent in us. And we often get upset about our own dissatisfaction, and think, no, I need to be content, I need to be mindful. Yes, but dissatisfaction has also led us to change things. And that’s a good development, regardless of how we judge it morally. And I try not to talk anyone up or down, just, we should all be innovative. That’s why I like your rooms — they always inspire that.
Yes, thank you, thank you so much. And we’ve had this in a lot of other contexts too — that a lot of developments, discoveries, and so on, whether they later get used or applied in a positive or negative sense, has a lot to do with people, at that point. That means the developments or discoveries that take place, that we pick up, are generally not good or bad per se — we explicitly named this in the AI context too, and said, basically, in inverted commas, the problem, or the weak point, is the human, and the solution also lies with the human. And it’s similar elsewhere too, whether we look toward space or pick up other topics under this umbrella theme Pioneering Spirit with Brain. That means, what we make of it and how we handle it has a lot to do with us humans, at that point. We can use and apply it positively. But we can also “misuse” it, and then we’re relatively quickly in moral, ethical territory too, where certain discussions are worth having, and it’s important to have them too, and in one place or another to look at it with genuine concern too, to make decisions against the backdrop of weighing things up, and similar. Nonetheless, this development, on all levels, on closer inspection, has always moved us forward as humanity too. And I find an aspect really exciting in this context — I don’t know who among you knows the film, you basically have to say, “Think and Grow Rich” — there’s a film adaptation of that, a kind of mixture of documentary and aspects from this book that get picked up in it. I watch it every so often, at longer regular intervals, always gladly, as a reminder or refresher too. And there’s a book on this too, which is an absolute classic in the field. And this “Think and Grow Rich,” by the way, in terms of the word “rich” — everyone can interpret that differently, of course — but “rich” here doesn’t primarily mean the monetary aspect, but rather wealth viewed holistically, what you can achieve with it. And that connects really, really strongly to everything described there, has to do with our imagination and what’s possible with our “thinking.” And in this film sequence there’s a section — it’s fresh in my mind right now because I watched it again recently — I’ll paraphrase it, because I think it fits in really well here to underline what I mean. Everything a person can think, they’re also capable of achieving — as food for thought. And if we just look back, how did aviation actually come about, for example? Only because people were somehow convinced, this has to work somehow. And so various research was carried out, things were tried, certainly with a lot of broken bones and so on, the first people at work here, but they actually achieved it in the end. And no matter which direction we look, it’s always people who have an idea or a notion of what might be possible, and then take action. And usually it’s not individual players working on this alone, but again and again, with this scientific mindset, it’s various insights that different people bring together, where they build on each other, and then, step by step, further development happens, until one of these players, so to speak, manages this breakthrough. And so this should be viewed as a unity or a whole too. Usually it’s not one individual working on this alone who then brings an innovation for humanity, but usually it’s insights that come together like puzzle pieces over a longer period, get built on top of each other, where you maybe recognize what doesn’t work, and similar, and then continue, and eventually someone manages this breakthrough. And a lot of things in the past, viewed historically too, where humanity would have said, that’s insane, that’ll never be possible, are self-evidently possible for us today, because we didn’t live in a time where that was unimaginable. And so space travel, or space science, is an especially exciting topic in this regard. That means, if we look back just a few decades, one person or another might have waved it off and said, that can’t possibly be possible. By now we’ve made a lot, a lot of progress toward space travel. So why shouldn’t it be possible, sooner or later, to find ways not just to get to other planets, to take samples there, for example, and make something usable for us here on Earth, but maybe also to find ways to create alternative living spaces there too? So I do think that’s possible. I’m glad, dear Marc, that it worked out, that we managed to bring you in, and I’m curious what you have to say about this too.
Yes, good morning. I’m glad it worked out too. Yes, I also find it interesting that space technologies have real effects for us here on Earth too, for example for our automotive industry. And I didn’t know until now that Porsche and Mercedes work really closely with the German Aerospace Center. And in Baden-Württemberg there’s a research project — the state of Baden-Württemberg has invested over 10 million euros in it. And this project is called U-Shift. They’re developing self-driving vehicle platforms there, because the idea actually comes from space — of course, if we send cars or robots to Mars, they first have to independently supply themselves with energy, and so on, and need to be flexible and versatile. And this U-Shift project is working on self-driving vehicle platforms that basically look like this — you have a module, a drive module. And you can attach, for example, a glass carriage to this drive module, if you go to a trade fair, to transport fair visitors from Hall A to Hall B. But you can also detach this glass module and use the car as a transport box instead, saying, now we’re not transporting people, we’re transporting goods. And of course, later, all of that will be driving around with cars and so on and so forth. And these technologies come from the experiences and results gained from space research so far.
Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. And I’d like to give the opportunity here again to tie in with various points that have come up in the meantime. Erik, Layla, do you have further connections or further thoughts that came up through the impulses that just came up?
So I was just thinking, could you say two, three keywords again? Otherwise the fireworks go off and I want to speak in a focused way.
Well, you’re welcome to take space science and space travel as guardrails, so to speak, to see where your thoughts that came up connect back to at that point.
Yes, well, I think it’s simply the case that we’re definitely benefiting through all these technologies. If you think about how medicine has progressed, and so on. And I’m reminded of my essay again, and I have to admit my teacher was right to give me a D, because I was really, really mad at him at the time, and thought, I packaged that so nicely argumentatively. No, I didn’t, because I didn’t have enough arguments, because the arguments actually are that this development pushes us forward here on Earth too, and that a lot of things have changed for the better. And if we look at examples now — I mean, if I think of the movie “The Martian,” and he had to do certain things, and had to figure out how to do that, and categorize, and so on — those are all things I only know in theory, I watched it and thought, wow, and also a bit boring, but honestly, those are insights we already use. We already use, well, when I hold my phone in my hand, I’m basically, if I understand this correctly, at least working with systems that actually have their origin in space research. When I think of satellites, when I watch TV, a lot of things I do are because of that. And you also talked about Google Maps — it’s possible on Google Maps that I can look at where my parents’ house is, and I can zoom in, and I can zoom in so much that I can even see it — there are pictures of it too. And that’s already an achievement, that’s already wonderful. And the fear we have too, I understand it, Yasemin — I saw on TV this morning that I believe England wants to get together because of ChatGPT, to make sure it’s safe. And I think it’s important that it’s safe, because we’re a bit uneasy about what gets invented, and we have big fears about it too, and they’re quite legitimate — I’m an ethics teacher, they’re quite legitimate, because not everyone wants something good. And still it’s really exciting, and my inner child looks forward to Enterprise, and my inner child looks forward to someday standing in the kitchen, if I still get to experience it, and saying — I don’t know what you’d want to call the voice AI — please prepare this and that for me. And it’s already wonderful that I can talk to it. And I think space travel has played a big role in that. The question is what the flat-earthers think about that.
Yes, thank you, thank you so much. Yes, and maybe here, to open up a distinction in terms again — our fears, which we have, are first of all human, in inverted commas. That means it’s about, Jürgen already summarized this earlier, first looking at whether our existence is threatened. And then the second question, what’s the benefit of this for me? And if I recognize a benefit, then that can turn into motivation for something, for example — so, what for? This “what for” question. And these fears are first, so to speak, emotionally built into us, in inverted commas, against this backdrop of making decisions within milliseconds too, like whether I flee or engage in a fight, and so on. So this is basically programmed into us, in inverted commas. However, we also develop fears in connection with things we don’t know, for example — that means everything that’s foreign to us, because we don’t have experience values we can connect to, also triggers fears. And it’s always worth differentiating here and looking at whether this is the fear that’s simply built into this pure emotion, so to speak, kicking in, or what part of this fear is justified or not justified. And in a lot of places we’ll recognize that it’s not just justified, but in a lot of places also maybe just a worry, in inverted commas, where, through this precise and differentiated look, these distinctions really do exist. And that’s something you might address in an ethics council, for example — the keyword’s already come up — where certain things get looked at and weighed accordingly in an exchange and a discourse, and then thought through in chain reactions and connections, to not just stop or try to stop something per se, but also see how you can recognize opportunities in it and make use of them. Layla, you wanted to add something here too.
Exactly, I wanted to say something about fear, because I came across this in a context about what beauty is, what makes us human, what we feel sympathy for. And if you ask yourself why I have more sympathy for a monkey than for a fly, that’s simply because it’s more human-like. And I find that really interesting. Maybe you can back that up a bit with neuroscience. As far as I know, the more human something is, the more sympathy I have, because I can identify with it. And think about it — a spider has, I believe, eight legs, and, yes, we find that strange. That’s not human-like anymore. And then we don’t have as much sympathy. That’s why we don’t have as much sympathy for a fish as for a cow — that’s just how it is. That doesn’t mean we’re similar to a cow — no, but we find similar traits. And I find that really interesting in this context, that you can actually verify that too — just like we’ve verified verbally these past few days, if I’m narratively driven, which the media likes to do, saying, well, these are the “glue-ers” instead of climate activists, or climate nuts, then I have an image in my head. And so thinking about how feelings arise doesn’t mean you don’t take them seriously — it just means you’re aware of them. And I think you should also consider why you perceive them. Purely factually, a cow is bigger than an insect, but both are animals. And if I assume they have a soul now — well, I can still distinguish between beneficial and harmful insects — then I suddenly have a problem. What’s also interesting is that when something is human-like but doesn’t move in a human way, you can think of horror movies and similar things, then it seems strange to us again, and it scares us. You can run through all the movies in your head that have something to do with science fiction. So, worth considering whether the fear is worth taking seriously — you should take yourself seriously, but you should also look at how fears arise. And that’s where I find neuroscience really interesting, for example, because I found it really interesting, the more similar something is to me, the more human-like it is, the more sympathy I have for it. And we all think, well, a lot of us apparently, that we’ll be the first after Mother Teresa to get into heaven, if I believe in this construct. And I found that really exciting, where I thought, yes, and somehow I’m dependent on narratives after all, and let myself get programmed somehow, and should maybe check that too. So much on the topic of morality.
Yes, thank you, thank you so much. And especially that last keyword you used, “programming,” I find really important here, because of course there are a lot of ways of looking at this that we’d need to pick up, as factors, so to speak. It’s not just whether something is human-like or not. So one of the factors that plays a role here, and is correct too, is on one hand, what’s similar to us gets a certain sympathy. That’s not just true, by the way, when we look at other races or something, now the animal kingdom and so on — not now with races, but other living beings or something — but also among us humans too. Because that’s proven, that people who pursue similar hobbies, where we have things in common and so on, we develop a much bigger sympathy right away, because the feeling of belonging is immediately activated, compared to people who are somehow distant from us, or have ideas we can’t really relate to, without making a judgment here, but just noting it as a fact, that someone thinks differently than I do. And so that’s one factor, that has to do with similarities. That means, if I take an animal like a monkey, there are certain similarities. But that’s not the only thing. A second important factor is resonance. So, how does another living being resonate with us, for example? That plays a big role too. For example, with a parrot, or a monkey, or something, we actually get some form of feedback. It resonates with us in some way, possibly. That also creates sympathy, whereas with a fish, well, you have to look a bit more closely — I don’t want to say there’s no resonance there at all, but you have to look more closely, and look more carefully, to even “recognize” any resonance there at all, so to speak. And so that’s something that doesn’t immediately win our sympathy, because we can’t establish a direct connection, possibly. And the other thing is another factor, namely things like beliefs, and that’s part of this “programming.” Beliefs, cultures, and so on play a role too. We can recognize that really, really quickly if we think about it. We talked about this in the past too — that something like disgust, for example, isn’t something innate, but something we’ve learned, through observation, and through what we perceive as observations in our environment, which we then maybe adopt unquestioningly too, along the lines of, if that person is a significant reference figure in my small world as a child. If I perceive that my mother, or my father, or my best friend, is somehow afraid of spiders, I might adopt that unquestioningly, because if the other person is afraid of it, then it must have some relevance for me too. That’s also tied to securing existence, and so on, which runs automatically in the background here. And we can see this really nicely too if we look at other cultures, other customs, and so on. For us, in inverted commas, it’s completely normal to be able to eat a cow, or something. If we look toward India, the cow is sacred there. And that doesn’t necessarily have to do with it being human-like or something, but has to do with belief, at that point. So that means our beliefs, and the culture we grow up in, play a role too. And we had this aspect too, regarding food, and these discussions that exist around various proteins, which are now, and increasingly in the future too, meant to get used more in food, in terms of resource use, so to speak, which, because it went through the media, suddenly leads to a huge outcry. But on closer inspection, it also has a lot to do with the fact that it’s not normal for us, in inverted commas, whether that’s lice or other proteins that get extracted there, that get used in food. In other countries, that wouldn’t even be discussed, because they handle the consumption of insects, for example, completely differently there. So a lot, a lot of components actually play into this, and ultimately, to build the bridge back to space travel and space science and so on — a lot of this is, for us, regardless of where we look, whether it’s a gut feeling or similar, that doesn’t originate in the gut first, but all of that originates in our brain. And that’s why, whenever we feel certain things, we should be clear that a process has just taken place in our brain, which has led to a cocktail of various messenger substances and so on being released. And they have different functions, based on prior experiences and so on too. That’s an interplay, so to speak, that happens within milliseconds, and leads to us maybe having a strange gut feeling and not feeling comfortable, or similar. And a lot of processes run unconsciously too. If I know that, then I can look at this in a really targeted way, and steer one thing or another consciously too. And that’s an ability we have as humans, which is a wonderful ability, to really secure survival long-term, in the sense of adaptability, to secure existence, and also, with further aspects like curiosity, exploration, and so on, to discover new things, use that meaningfully for ourselves again, and keep moving forward, so to speak — that’s how I’d describe it. And with that, keeping an eye on the time, I’d like to move into today’s closing round. If you had further thoughts that came up as impulses, feel free to pick them up again in the closing round, to wrap up for today with your highlight from the room. Erik, Layla, Marc, in that order please.
Yes, I’d like to briefly tie back to the topic of animals. In rare cases it’s actually possible — I’m one of those people who feels a really deep sympathy and empathy for all animals, and I actually really enjoy watching a housefly clean its wings, or its little head, and stand on the legs it’s not currently using. And that applies equally to spiders, and even microorganisms too. That’s what I wanted to throw in — otherwise, wonderful room as always, thank you.
Yes, thank you, thank you so much. Layla?
Yes, I was just thinking about this again, because I found it really exciting just now. I was in a seminar too — I always have to consult my studies — about the familiar and the foreign, right? And I think it’s really true that we prefer the familiar over the foreign a bit, because we look for similarities, whether that’s with animals, with traits, or with people. And I found it really exciting to check that for myself again, because next time someone seems likable or unlikable to me, I’ll think about why that is. And if I find something dangerous, or am afraid of something, I’ll think carefully next time about why that is too. Because otherwise it’s like in a Sting song, and I’m the Englishman in New York, feeling comfortable only because there’s hardly anyone around me who’s like me. And then maybe I’m missing out on something. Thanks for listening.
Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. Marc?
What Layla said about similarity is really, really an important aspect. And business and scientists are also currently considering how similar machines and robots are allowed to become to us. There are also a lot of lonely people, and there are already experiments — if people build a relationship with a robot, which is a lot, lot easier if it looks similar to us, tests have been done, and it could well be that if there’s a fire at my place, I might try to save my robot first, because it recognizes me — “hello, Marc, how are you?” I develop a relationship, and can no longer distinguish that it’s just a machine. And in an emergency, when it comes to a rescue, I might choose my robot over a human. And that’s why this is really an important topic — how similar machines and robots are allowed to become to us — the background is relationship-building.
Yes, great, thank you, thank you so much. This bridge to robots and machines too, I really find that wonderful. And ultimately it’s really important here — I’d like to bring up a post I read at some point recently too, I found it really exciting, by the way, and it has to do with the animal kingdom too, but fits in really, really well in this context. To simply realize how rational or irrational our thoughts actually are in one place or another, when they’re purely emotion-driven — and that’s why it makes sense to look closely here. So, roughly, this post was about how many shark attacks, or how many people actually get killed by sharks each year. The number is relatively small, and still the fear of sharks is incredibly big — not just because emotions run away with us, but also because, when something does happen, it goes through the media landscape. That’s why, through a certain kind of repetition, even at larger intervals, it gets connoted and stored differently in us. What a lot of people don’t know at all, and I didn’t know this either, by the way, and I found this really fascinating, is that far more people die each year from snails. And I found that totally fascinating, and actually looked it up, to read a bit about what kinds of snails there are and which are dangerous to humans, and so on. And most deaths, at that point, are actually caused by mosquitoes. And with mosquitoes, we’re maybe totally relaxed and think, well, what can a mosquito really do to me. But if you just look at the numbers, the facts behind it, and set the record straight again, in inverted commas, I think that’s a good example that we shouldn’t just be at the mercy of our emotions, in inverted commas, but should really, again and again, consciously steer and correct our own thinking. That’s why I found that a wonderful example. That means, not everything our brain wants to make us believe is true. And conversely, that also creates a huge opportunity, and I’d like to take that as a closing thought. Because if we know how our brain ticks and functions to some extent, and how these emotions get steered behind it, then we get an opportunity again — and here we’re back at education — to act in the direction of self-determination and self-efficacy. Because, up to a certain degree, if I know these functionalities, I can consciously use this knowledge for myself, and get into self-regulation up to a certain degree, and can, in a lot of places, especially when weighing things up, especially with topics like space travel, with topics where I notice I don’t have sufficient knowledge, maybe do some more research, and not jump to judgment too quickly and form an opinion prematurely, but really be out and about again with curiosity, as an explorer. This childlike curiosity — and here we’re back at this childlike quality — that we pick up, having both the worries and the enthusiasm, looking at things from different perspectives, and really engaging and grappling with these topics, and consciously outsmarting what our brain sometimes wants to make us believe, because maybe, by engaging with a topic, by dealing with a topic, we recognize for ourselves that there are actually a lot more facets to it than we might have initially assumed. And I think space travel and space science were a great example of that too, to show that it’s not just about other planets, and what you could do with that, is that even sensible, do we even need that, but also to look at what wonderful things we already have, thanks to space science, that we use today as a matter of course, and that enrich our lives and make them easier too. Right, with that, I think a lot, lot of aspects came together today. Just see which impulses you want to and can take with you today, to bring one thing or another into implementation for yourself, to make connections to other fields again too. Tomorrow we continue with renewable energies — what’s meant by renewable energies, and what’s actually sustainable? Let’s take a closer look at that. I’m already really, really curious what comes together there too. And with that, you’re all very warmly invited to join us again tomorrow at 8am in Deep Talk. I look forward to welcoming you here again. Thank you for participating.
It was a wonderful round again today, I think, and I’m leaving the room totally blown away again. Until then, I wish you all the best.
