Brain Food for Pioneering Spirits: What’s really in our food, and where is nutrition heading next? In Room #868 of the Deep Talk Club, under our overarching theme “Pioneering Spirit with brAIn,” the group digs into cochineal dye and disgust as a learned response, sugar-fat ratios engineered to hook us, why healthy eating is often a question of money and education, and the markets — halal, supplements, food sharing — emerging around it all. Listen in on the examples that came up and the perspectives that emerged in dialogue…
Note: This session was recorded live in German as part of the Deep Talk Club, so the video above is German-language audio only. What follows is an English translation of the conversation, lightly edited for readability — the back-and-forth between the moderator and participants is preserved, but the original timestamps and speaker names have been left out.
A wonderful good morning to all of you again. Today we’re talking about the future of nutrition, and I already announced this yesterday — I’m really excited about it, because it’s already come up in the past few days, and today we’re picking it up and going deeper into it. So how are things like genetic modifications to food, meat substitute products, and more actually changing right now? What comes to mind for you on this? Where do you have expertise? Maybe some of you use one option or another too — do you see pros and cons? What’s happening there, and where is our diet, so to speak, heading? That’s what we want to talk about today, and I’m really curious about your examples, experiences in this context, all the way to the whole discussion you might have followed more intensively or just peripherally, about new proteins, or old-new proteins, in food. We’ve partly picked up through the media that this or that is getting into our food, which might at first trigger a feeling of disgust in some of you. But if you research a bit more closely, you’ll find that not all of it is really all that new — maybe only certain portions are, but a lot of it has actually already been in our food in the past. So I’m really excited today, and I could imagine it might get a bit emotional for some of you too, when you think about everything that’s actually in our food. So I’m very, very curious what you have to say about this, and I’m glad Layla is joining me this morning to open the round together. Just a quick reminder for everyone — we have a recording running in the background that also gets published, so anyone who joins automatically agrees to that too, that it gets recorded and published. Then we have three small room rules — a profile photo where you’re clearly recognizable, first and last name, and at least one sentence in your bio. And anyone who doesn’t want that for whatever reason, or wants to stay anonymous, of course has the option today too to just join via chat, put in questions, comments, or whatever, and we’ll gladly pick that up in between too, hopefully. I’m curious. Layla, what do you say about the topic?
A wonderful good morning. Well, I’d already brought this up, Yasemin, that we’re now officially supposed to have insects in our food. There’s a big discussion about that now, which I can understand, but I also notice that these emotions get used very politically. I looked at the Bundestag, where it’s said, we don’t want vermin in our food. And I said, well, I’d done a bit of research — I have to say, we already have vermin in our food. So, I don’t want to attack anyone here, but the substance E120, which I’d mentioned before, that’s real carmine, sounds really nice, and it’s even labeled “natural dye.” It’s derived from the fertilized and dried females of the scarlet cochineal insect, which grow on cacti. Yes, as far as I know those are insects, and I don’t think they count as beneficial insects, so I think we’d call them vermin. This substance got replaced for a while, namely by E124, because it can be made cheaper. And for anyone who wants to know where it’s all found — E120 — it’s in lipstick, in vegetarian sausage substitutes, in drinks, in candy and desserts. Doesn’t sound too tasty. And I have to say, of course we have the Federal Institute for Risk Assessment, they did a review too, and I think they were briefly divided on it, but then decided it likely wouldn’t have harmful effects. They considered whether it could affect human genetic material, and then decided that’s not the case. So that’s the current state of things — it counts as a natural dye and is now often used again as a natural dye instead of the artificial one. I just wanted to briefly bring this up, for anyone who thinks they don’t eat insects — that doesn’t mean I want to convince you all to do so, but I found it really interesting, and I found this assessment really interesting too. I’d be interested in the long-term study on how this affects our genes.
Yes, really interesting, thank you, thank you so much. I don’t want to comment on that right away or anything, let’s just see what Alex would like to add, and then I’m curious about the cross-connections accordingly. Alex, a wonderful good morning to you too.
Yes, a wonderful good morning. Well, it’s actually the case that we of course also have a form of habit, based on how we were raised, in what we then eat too. There are plenty of cultures where insects get eaten. We also have insect-like things — if you look at shrimp, they look very, very similar to bugs. And there are a lot of additives, as Layla already said, that are based on insects, or on even more disgusting things. There’s the book “Die Suppe lügt” [“The Soup Lies”] by Ulrich Grimm, and in Japan, goulash is sometimes made from sewage sludge, partly. So these are all things that are approved, that are feasible. I find it a bit hypocritical when people say, I don’t want to eat that. The fact is, we’re in an overpopulation situation, we need protein sources. Just this high level of pollution caused by cattle herds, or livestock herds generally, and also in terms of ethics, that’s no longer sustainable for our world. That means we need other protein sources. And, yes, France has a cheese, for example, that’s full of maggots, which is considered a specialty there. So I think it’s simply a matter of habituation and what that does to us mentally. And we also eat things that other cultures find absolutely terrible, for example. Great topic, I’m excited.
Yes, wonderful, thank you, thank you so much. And you just picked up a really important aspect too — this has a lot to do with how we feel about it. You just said, there are also other cultures that consume other things, not just maybe, but simply other animals, other foods generally compared to us, and that’s completely normal there, in inverted commas. So that has a lot to do with, how did we grow up, how were we socialized, what do we classify as disgusting or something? And disgust isn’t something innate, viewed from brain research too, but it’s essentially learned — we picked it up from our surroundings. Similar to how, as a child, I react to a worm I find in the lawn, or a spider I see — through the reaction of our surroundings, so to speak, we learn this disgust accordingly, it’s not something given to us in the cradle per se. That means, if our environment hadn’t reacted to certain things the way we grew up with, we might not have a fear of spiders in one place, or a fear of the dark in another, or discomfort touching certain insects in the garden in another, and no feeling of disgust eating these foods. And of course you could now ask, is this a food or not a food? And you could open up the discussion in that direction too — yes, but isn’t it up to me to decide that myself? And I think that’s actually a legitimate discussion we can open up — isn’t it up to me to decide that myself? So, okay, what can I do? On the one hand, I could reframe it and first make myself aware that it has to do with disgust, and maybe handle it differently, to control my emotions or feelings at that point. On the other hand, I could also make the decision, once I’ve engaged more intensively with it, to say, yes, that may all be true, I still don’t want it. So, do I even have a chance to get out of this situation? And that doesn’t just concern the concrete examples we’ve brought up now, but also many, many other additives and so on, where it’s becoming increasingly difficult for the consumer to make a proper distinction here. Is everything even shown on the packaging? Don’t I spend, in inverted commas, much more time in the supermarket looking at what’s on every package? And especially abbreviations like E120 or E124, or other codes, don’t really make it easier for the consumer, because you really need to know what’s behind it. What do you say about that, Layla, Alex?
Gladly, Layla. Yes, I have to say, I’ve been engaging with nutrition and ingredients for a while now — whether that’s about insects, or earlier about looking into gelatine, and thinking, oh, I might have this or that in it too. How are things produced, if you actually look at that? As a consumer, you’re often not even allowed to make many decisions, or don’t even know how it’s produced. The question is, do you even want to know? Whether that’s chicken eggs, where the male chicks die and get suffocated — that’s sometimes on packaging now, that it’s no longer done that way — or whether I look at what names sugar substances have. And, well, I heard that there’s sugar in my pizza, and I thought, excuse me? And then I thought, well, but sugar is addictive, it releases serotonin, dopamine — I’m not saying it’s a drug, I’m just saying, I’d like to choose when I eat it and when I don’t. But I can’t always do that, because if I don’t recognize the sugar because it has a nice different name, then it gets difficult. That’s why I got Codecheck and things like that — you feel like a detective. For anyone who’s Muslim, they know this too, or people with food intolerances, you’re always doing a bit of research — what actually is this? And you can ask a sales clerk — and this isn’t against the profession of sales clerks, but actually against the profession of food producers, because it’s not clear. And at some point I decided for myself, whatever an eight-year-old can’t read out loud, and whatever has more than five additives, or eight, I don’t want to eat. And I think that’s a pretty good rule, but it’s quite hard to implement, because of course a lot of things need to be researched. And it often ends already with needing glasses, because it’s written so, so small. And you need to know that the highest-quantity ingredient is listed first, and then the rest follows. And then you can hope you learned that in school, that it’s actually taught there. And then you can hope the consumer actually looks at that too. And whether they even want to look, I think, is a big question in itself. When I saw all this, I thought, oh god, now I don’t even want to eat anything anymore. And yes, it’s a difficult topic, because once it becomes transparent, you notice, oh, what’s actually in my food? That’s what came to mind for me.
Yes, and above all it’s very diverse — on the one hand there are various additives, then there’s processing, as you said, then we have the aspect, we already talked about this recently, things like grafting of plants, of fruit, vegetables, and so on. So a lot is happening here, which, however, hasn’t necessarily only started happening yesterday. That’s also something you’re allowed to become aware of again here — just because it’s currently being hyped in the media in one place or another doesn’t necessarily mean it hasn’t already been used, or processed in that form, for ages in some cases. You certainly know this — it’s always different things that get driven through the media, in inverted commas. And of course that might lead to shock in one place or another, because you hadn’t consciously engaged with it before, or maybe that’s exactly what gets you into this mode of education a bit. So it has a good side too, in the sense of, think about what you’re actually eating. But then this discussion, along the lines of, now there’s something new, and that’s maybe just another insect or something, where it’s about proteins — and that becomes, if you just consumed it without questioning it, it often sounds in the media as if something completely groundbreaking, new, totally insane is emerging, that wasn’t the case before. But if you start researching, you’ll find it actually already exists in a lot of places, and that it’s now about further additives, different proportions. And here you can really look at it from different angles. The critical view would then ask the question, do we even want that? Should it be this way? And is there really a justification, or a good reason, for it developing in this direction? And we can look at that too — along the lines of, what is that actually justified with, why does this or that run the way it runs, or what’s being picked up there? Maybe you’ve heard something about this too and want to add something. Layla, gladly.
Yes, it’s actually the case that a lot of things are already added to our food, for example — you shouldn’t just look at iodized salt, I think iodine is contained in a lot of foods. That’s because we’re in Central Europe, and there’s assumed to be an iodine deficiency here, so something like that gets added. I have to say, if you have Hashimoto’s, it’s not such a good idea to consume iodine in high amounts — please consult a doctor here too. My sister has Hashimoto’s, that’s why I’m speaking from experience here, that’s why I engaged with this topic extensively at some point. And I found it’s not so easy to leave things out, or when vitamins are added — that’s really nice and well-intentioned, 1,000 units can’t hurt. But it’s also a hype to add vitamin D — vitamin D in too high a dose, like any other medication, can be toxic. So it’s not advisable. And I don’t know if you can properly estimate the amount, if you drink a liter of juice — and that’s not exactly, well, I won’t name a brand, there’s a brand that likes to make vitamin juices like that, no, I won’t name the brand, and normal juices are now also often designed so that something’s been added. Whether you can consciously make that decision, I don’t really know, because you’d need to get your vitamin levels checked and then look at what amounts you’re taking in. I think it’s important that we don’t forget that. And the other thing that comes to mind, since 2019 I’ve been eating an anti-inflammatory diet, which includes an almost exclusively vegan diet. That’s not incredibly easy either, because for one thing that’s of course a production factor you need to see, a marketing factor — I ask myself, if it says “vegan” on the broccoli or on the zucchini, and then it costs three euros. A lot of things that are naturally lactose-free, naturally vegan, or naturally gluten-free get advertised that way to make more money. That’s what came to mind for me too. And, for example, juice isn’t vegan either, and wine very often isn’t — I found it quite interesting that gelatine is used for clarification. And making a conscious decision here, if I don’t know that, I find difficult, because I have to inform myself very, very, very well. And the question is, well, I don’t want to say it’s being concealed, but it’s not made that obvious. And now we have this coding where we see A, B, or C, which door do you choose now, if you look at how healthy foods are — but that’s also worth questioning, how that’s actually done, because there are also foods on there that I personally wouldn’t consider all that healthy, that maybe get a B or something too, and then I think, yes, but why? And then, please, you have to look up the criteria that’s based on. But I find it really interesting that we can’t consciously make certain decisions at all, because it’s kept from us by the market — with the chicks, I think it was deliberately not mentioned what happens to the male chicks, because they don’t fetch a price. And the breeding hasn’t been talked about either — if you only want chicken drumsticks, and if you always only want chicken breast, then we have to breed the chickens to have more breast. You should take a look at that. And yes, it’s sometimes very shocking, and worth researching. Thanks for listening.
Yes, in any case it’s really, really diverse. And on the one hand we have cost reduction, on the other hand it’s about speeding up production. Then, in certain areas, we have land being destroyed by monoculture, so people rely on various novel technologies to get proteins in a different way, through a different kind of breeding or other additives being generated, so to speak — that’s just one example. You can observe the same with plants and so on, similar things. At the same time we have exactly what you described too, this thing where, if we want more of one thing, but that only makes up a portion of the animal, then that of course has corresponding effects on breeding too, up to other animals of certain sexes maybe not even being used at all, but only used for breeding and then slaughtered, and so on. There are so many, many aspects we can open up here — you see again how complex this topic is. And accordingly, if we look at this now under this overarching theme, Pioneering Spirit with Brain, and pick up these new technologies again, it’s partly about producing optimization, in inverted commas, through new technologies. The question is just, optimization for whom? Is it optimization for the user, and/or optimization for the entrepreneur? And what does that do in an overall development that results from it, all the way to, and these aren’t just emotional aspects playing a role here, but we also talked in one of the last rooms about how everything is interwoven with each other. That means there are corresponding chain reactions that have effects in other areas too. You just mentioned, Layla, that you found out at some point that there’s sugar in your pizza — and that’s not just in pizza, by the way, it’s in bread too, for example. With pizza you might say, okay, I’ll skip it, but with bread we might not look that closely anymore. And at the same time we’ve also looked at developments and illnesses, this health-illness tension field — in this context we also looked at newer technologies, and on the one hand it’s the case that, through the various additives that might be in food, and I’m not making a specific reference here, it could be that something like E120 or so is harmless, but there could well be quite concerning ingredients in our food too, like artificial sugar, and consumed in excess amounts, and excess consumption happens simply because it’s in all sorts of foods. And if we don’t look at this deliberately and consciously create this balance ourselves, we relatively quickly end up in overconsumption, so to speak, which then has health effects again. Then we have illness-causing substances, so to speak, over time, if too much is consumed. And then, in turn, when we get sick, we need medications again. And so you notice how, in this chain reaction, everything has a price at that point, and that means chain reactions arise, and then of course we can look at what our healthcare system looks like, and how that affects health insurance, and so on. And of course the question is, isn’t this ultimately, in inverted commas, human-made — starting with the problems in food, through the problems with illness, through the problems we discuss in healthcare too. I’m really curious. Alex, feel free to follow up now, and then I’ll gladly bring in Sabine.
Okay, great. I’d like to do a quick pivot back to the topic of sugar and fat, which Layla also touched on. The industry of course values operating profitably, and in our food, whether that’s cookies, cakes, or anything else — everything that has this “yummy,” this “rich” effect in the mouth, has a ratio of 50-50 fat-sugar, or 60-40 fat-sugar. And that’s based on our very first food when we come into the world, namely breast milk — practically reproduced by the industry, so this addiction factor can simply be extracted. That’s quite deliberate, that’s constructed that way by food designers, so that whether it’s a croissant, a cookie, or anything else, it has exactly this ratio, and that of course then docks into our brain too. So all these addiction interfaces, or something like that, get engaged via sugar, via gluten, or whatever else too. And that brings me to the next topic — 50 years ago, wheat had, let’s say, a gluten coding of 50; by now that’s been bred up to 300 times that, because it’s a great binding agent for baking. That means we automatically get pushed in the direction of, hey, what’s good for the entrepreneur, what’s good for the industry, and that then practically ends up in there. There are a lot of illness-causing ingredients in — these aren’t food for me anymore, these are simply filler material for the stomach. And if you handle it more consciously, you can save a lot. A small example from me — I had surgery in the past two weeks, I have a complicated leg fracture, and I was supposed to take oxycodone from the hospital, that’s one of the strongest painkillers there is. I got through the entire post-op period without any painkiller at all, because I eat a mostly vegan diet, because I avoid all these additives, and because my body just isn’t in this, yes, this spiral, this cycle, where something constantly needs to be supplied from outside.
Thank you very much.
Yes, thank you, thank you so much. And you brought up two more factors, or one factor really — these quantity ratios that actually get consciously controlled and deployed in certain proportions, so that it produces a certain effect in our brain, and so that these products get repurchased or reconsumed on the one hand, and then this aspect with gluten you brought up too, that’s also something that’s in all sorts of foods very, very strongly — whenever we think of anything with carbohydrates, whether that’s pasta or whatever, it gets consumed in excess amounts. There are numerous studies and findings on how harmful this actually is for the body too. Even though this is, in principle, “known,” in inverted commas, that doesn’t lead to the food industry handling it any differently, but it’s one of those things that’s just in all the shelves, found everywhere, in all sorts of products, and also, in some cases very, very concerning, if you really think about it, that even though it’s so obvious, it apparently still doesn’t really interest the food industry in terms of profit, revenue, and so on, and that no action is taken against it, in inverted commas, or that at least appropriate education isn’t being done. These are topics you’ll come across if you actually take an interest in these topics yourself and dig deeper. But they’re not classic topics that keep getting picked up by the media — maybe not sensational enough. But something like insects in food, yes, because that shocks readers, and also drives clicks. Sabine, a wonderful good morning — what would you like to say about it?
Hello, good morning. You just gave me a real setup there — can you hear that? Because there’s a lawnmower from the city right outside. Can you hear me?
Yes, we can hear you — there’s some background noise, but we hear you clearly.
Wait, let me go inside, that’ll be better. Okay, better now. You just gave me the perfect setup. I’m not as much of a specialist here as Layla and Alex. What actually happened to me is that I have three vegan children — we kept having discussions, we cooked separately too, the kids sort of raised us a little. But I still wasn’t quite that open to it until I went to a seminar called “Life and Energy,” which was a lot about nutrition, sports, and so on. That was in October, November, and since then I’ve changed quite a lot. But I have to admit, among the participants at this event were also a lot of, I’d say, sales organizations trying to flood people with dietary supplements, which the organizer couldn’t prevent because they just registered normally. And I have to say, I find it a bit extreme that I have to go this deep just to maybe eat healthily. And I hold that a bit against the system too — we have the traffic light labeling, there’s something on meat, but that’s all relatively rudimentary. As I said, I was at an event last week, and there was a professor from DHBW Heilbronn, they now have a good degree program — I talked with her the whole time and said, I think this is all great, but how do we bring this to the masses? And she said, as a solution, education. Well, now go to McDonald’s and see the education there. We discussed that afterward in the car — my kids asked, why do so many people go to McDonald’s and eat such unhealthy stuff? We tried the vegan option there, wasn’t recommendable. And then we just discussed the prices — you get, I don’t know exactly, 6, 7 euros, and you get your big meal with cola and everything. And then four people come out with trays, the whole family gets fed. I said, if you now get a vegan burger here at Hans im Glück for 15 euros per person, calculate that up — that’s obviously a massive difference. And that’s where I actually see a bit of the biggest problem — that eating is incredibly a habit, incredibly tied to education. With habit, I can also say, if I now order a fruit juice at a restaurant, it’s too sweet for me now, because at home I’ve got a completely different mixing ratio by now. Or I found a tea we still had at home, drank it, and thought, wow, that’s so sweet, and threw it away. So it’s a matter of habit — but who’s the one who first gets people started on that habit? And that’s where I come to the topic of education. I told the professor, I’m curious when education, oh sorry, when food, when nutrition, will actually be on our curriculum, and economics, and politics are, but not just starting in 11th grade — maybe starting in 5th grade. That was my contribution.
Yes, great, thank you, thank you so much. Yes, we keep coming back to the topic of education, and then you mentioned other points too, like prices. That’s the thing too — if we look at it now, in inverted commas, if you want to eat more consciously, that also partly has to do with costs, whether we’re thinking organic, or dietary supplements, or something — it’s not just about creating awareness and changing habits, it also has to do with, in inverted commas, whether you can even afford it. That means health here becomes, to some extent, something that costs money too, that can be a cost factor. And depending on what circumstances we come from, it’s then possible, or not possible. So that plays a role here too, which you just can’t wave away, in inverted commas. And then, especially with things like dietary supplements, that’s another door opening for a new market too, which certainly has its justification, but that doesn’t necessarily lead to clarity, but rather to further confusion, so to speak, due to the sheer diversity that exists. And especially in the area of dietary supplements, that ranges from being able to buy them in some drugstore, in inverted commas, all the way to quite classic MLM systems, which might be higher quality. But here too, for the consumer, if I don’t dig deeper, in inverted commas, in a lot of places I might have to bring a certain amount of trust, because especially with the topic of nutrition, it’s not the only topic — we’re seeing right now how many topic areas there are where I should, or would need, to take the time to look more closely, and I can hardly become an expert in everything. What do you say about that? Alex, would you like to follow up on that? I think you also wrote something in the chat — maybe you can connect that too, and otherwise I’d bring in Layla afterward.
Yes, very gladly, I was just about to write something. On the topic, sorry, walking with a limp is always a bit awkward, I’m out of breath — the topic of nutrition being expensive, or healthy nutrition being expensive — yes and no! I have a budget of 50 to 70 euros a week for myself, for my food, which is vegan, and I really manage easily with that, because I always cook ahead a bit, freeze some things too, and have a balanced, healthy diet, with which I also manage all my conditions. I’ve gotten my arthritis under control, I’ve gotten my Crohn’s disease under control, my wound healing after surgery right now is working perfectly, and so on and so on — I control all of that through nutrition. If you know how, and if you know what to pay attention to, and then also buy regional products or deals or something, it’s manageable. And what I’d written in the chat about gluten, of course people don’t want, or the industry doesn’t want to take something off the market, but if they notice, okay, there are people who have celiac disease from gluten, or who can’t tolerate lactose, or whatever, then new products just get created — meaning a new market gets opened up instead of reducing the existing market. So the industry doesn’t act in the interest of consumers, the industry always acts in the interest of its budget.
Thank you.
Yes, thank you, thank you so much. Now, of course, we should also differentiate here — 50 to 70 euros a week per person, if you extrapolate that for a five-person family where maybe only one person earns money, in inverted commas, and the other is responsible for raising the kids and so on, or only works part-time, and then also look at certain socioeconomic strata, that’s not a small amount, and I’d claim, based on people I know, that not everyone can afford that. That means, here you’d more quickly resort to pasta, for example, or something else that, in shopping, so to speak, for the consumer — on the one hand there’s of course also convenience involved, meaning how much effort do I need to put into healthy eating, do I maybe need to cook more, prepare more fresh food, and so on? Those are factors that play into this too. And at the same time, if there are several people, and depending on what income comes in, that plays a role too. Layla, you wanted to follow up too.
Yes exactly, I’d like to expand on that point a bit more. I recently saw two shows from public broadcasting, and one, I believe, was SWR — I hope I’m allowed to name it. Yasemin, I hadn’t asked that as a follow-up question, let me do that first — am I allowed to name it, if it’s SWR, a public broadcaster?
Yes, of course.
Great. And the other was, I believe, from WDR, and it was about whether you can even afford to eat healthily. That’s something I, well, with my illness, I’d already engaged with this consciously before, but I also come from a working-class family, and you’re completely right, pasta is always cheaper, because it costs 79 cents right now, or it’s on sale, and yes, you calculate that up. I also have five siblings, and then you calculate that up and think about it. In this show it was also established that it’s very hard to eat healthily then, because, I’m sorry, but it’s the case that unhealthy foods are very cheap — carbohydrates and sugar aren’t as expensive as other foods. I had the topic of poverty and wealth — I had a student standing at the board in front of me who said, you know, Ms. Billaid, that soup used to cost 79 cents, now my favorite instant soup costs 1.20 euros, now I can’t afford it anymore. Those are things I can imagine — I probably can’t imagine them quite the same way as before, but really feeling into that. And if you consider that food banks, so unemployed people, those now getting Bürgergeld instead of Hartz IV, get almost sent there to use them — and I don’t know what the current rate is, it’s been raised now, but I believe it’s under 1,300 euros. Look at housing prices, then think about what insurance costs, my child needs notebooks, then maybe wants to go on a school trip, then I have to go here and there and ask the parent-teacher association if they can support me. A lot of families might not want to do that. And if you watch shows like the NDR docs, you see that nutrition can have a really, really big influence on health and also on illness — because, for example, why do I eat an anti-inflammatory diet? Nutrition is a really, really big building block in my program against my MS, and I haven’t had a new lesion since 2019, alhamdulillah, and I attribute that to my diet. I know a lot of doctors who wouldn’t agree with me on that, but thank god they also can’t really strongly contradict me, because I hear that quite often — oh no, that doesn’t have that much influence, oh no — and then I watch the nutrition docs, or other people, and I think, no, my family doctor, or my former family doctor, or the specialist maybe doesn’t have the expertise at that moment. And yes, I really have to say, I think healthy eating has become something tied to finances too by now. I went shopping yesterday, I paid 83 euros for a not-particularly-large shopping trip — my father couldn’t pay that. He couldn’t. If he were shopping for one person, he’d probably try to shop for all of us with that amount of money. And that is a difference, and it became clear to me again then, and it keeps becoming clear to me — when I saw this show, I thought, yes, and then you get knee problems, you’re overweight, then you can’t do certain jobs anymore. I’m not saying you can’t do anything about it — Alex is right, you can consciously influence that. And Sabine is right too, it also has to do with education, you learn that in school. But if, as a child, I already ate a certain way, and not because my parents meant badly by it, but simply because it was cheap, or there wasn’t time, or the ready meal was just faster — and, I don’t know, if things like that were the case, then this transition is probably difficult for me too. And I believe I can also —
promote illness through nutrition and additives, I’d throw that into the room now, as I picked up on earlier too, because I do think it has an enormous influence. And I stay away from all additives because of my diet. But I know what it’s like to eat vegan and then get attacked for it, and told I’m responsible for soy production, to which I always say, well, no, cattle eat a huge amount of soy, I wanted to say that. I mostly avoid soy myself, because processed soy shouldn’t be eaten in large amounts, and I’m more of a fan of lupins and other proteins, where you can also eat vegan, but you really have to engage with it a lot to get a proper diet together. You should probably supplement B12, Alex probably knows more about that than me, I don’t know exactly about the amounts. Without going too far off track, I find it difficult — I know these attacks, that my plate suddenly has a morality attached to it, and then I think, yeah, but look, the cow didn’t used to eat soy either — it eats soy because producers found that soy is actually cheap to produce and makes great animal feed. And if we’re really honest, there are studies on this too that it’s not even that healthy for cows, not healthy for their manure, and that manure then gets spread on our fields, and in the end it ends up back with us again.
Thank you. And since you just mentioned cows — milk is also something that gets discussed very, very intensely, and has for many years too, and here too the question arises, is it really healthy for humans, or maybe not, all the way to eggs and so on. So you can really open up a lot of fields here, and it shows that, on the one hand, education is needed, and at the same time it’s so confusing. And especially with these newer technologies, with this flood of information and so on, it becomes difficult too, actually, for the consumer to reach a proper distinction, to really know, even if you engage more intensively with the topics, what can I actually rely on, what’s de facto something I can orient myself by. And that’s not so easy, even when we engage with these topics. Let me quickly pick up one or two more aspects, before we can gladly draw cross-connections again in the closing round and then speak the closing word. First, it occurred to me too, halal is also a market — it’s not just a dietary supplement or something, we have various markets that arise from various contexts or ways of life. And on halal I’d like to say something too — I can’t judge how true this is, because I’m not an expert in this field, but my aunt, who lives in Turkey, told me many, many years ago that she once spoke with a butcher in Turkey. And especially in Turkey, a lot of attention is paid to making sure, for example, that no pork or anything is offered, or mixed in anywhere, because basically everything is offered halal there. And apparently this butcher told her that, with certain things like cold cuts, for example, it can’t actually be produced or manufactured without certain things being mixed in, in a very small proportion, but that this isn’t talked about, because otherwise no one would eat it anymore. I found that really interesting — meaning, for certain textures, so to speak, like cold cuts, certain proportions might get mixed in, in a very small amount. As I said, I can’t judge how true that is, but I’ll just trust the information for now — I find that really interesting, that’s worth thinking about too, because we have this issue not just with the halal topic but in other contexts too — that, for example, a declaration requirement for certain additives on certain products only exists from a certain amount onward, and before that it doesn’t get indicated in any form at all. So that’s worth becoming aware of too. And the other thing I’d like to say to close is, this reminded me of something — a few years ago, quite a while back now, I once booked a seminar package with Tony Robbins, and this seminar package, in the sense of holistic wellness, also included something on the topic of health, and I actually had no real interest in it, but because it was booked along with everything and they called me too, along the lines of, don’t let it expire, I thought, well, okay, let’s just go through with it. And that ran for about a week or ten days or so, and it was actually the case that it included nutrition too, since it was ultimately about health, and accordingly, at the hotel, you weren’t allowed to consume anything else, in inverted commas, but had to commit to this experiment. On the first day, when I saw the buffet, I thought, oh god, what have you gotten yourself into — it didn’t convince me at all. But I thought, well, you’re already here, just go through with it and see what happens. And interestingly, after over a week, it was actually the case that what I’d previously found not particularly exciting suddenly tasted good. And then I also noticed how my sense of taste really changed, and that when I then consumed something else afterward at some point, it was suddenly much more intense. And I found it fascinating to observe how quickly that’s actually possible. And then you suddenly realize, even when you consume other things again, how many additives are actually in there, that we don’t even perceive, because it’s so normal for us in daily consumption, so to speak — that you only realize it through such standout “experiences,” I’ll call them, where you commit to an experiment like that, change your diet, or something like that. And the funniest thing about it, though, I thought, was that after I got back, I thought, okay, we can implement one thing or another in the family too — and that’s where we’re at habits. The fridge was full of great, healthy foods and so on, a lot of things for fresh juicing, fresh cooking, and so on, and my men kept opening the fridge, and there was only one comment — there’s nothing to eat here. I just wanted to share that as an anecdote with you. So there are other hurdles here too, not just what you can or can’t recognize, but especially with habits, and when you’re in a family. And I’ve often heard that there are constellations like this too, where one person eats, tries to eat healthily, while the other still has their sausage or whatever on the side. So it’s really fascinating to notice these constellations too — these are different challenges we’re facing.
Yes, and with that I’d like to move into the closing round, as I said. I’d seen that Sabine had raised her hand, so I’ll start in reverse order — you can each draw cross-connections again and then speak the closing word for today. Sabine, if you’re able right now, otherwise we’ll continue first.
I’ve been talking the whole time and I’m not on speaker.
No, all good.
So, great room. I wanted to say three more things — on the topic of milk, for example, my daughter switched to oat milk and can’t tolerate regular milk anymore now, because her body simply adjusted, which apparently isn’t unusual either. Second, when my daughter became vegan, I sent her to the doctor, and the doctor said, quite honestly, at that age you really don’t need to do that yet — I found that outrageous, she never went back to that doctor, because I mean, that’s not her decision, that’s the child’s decision, and she should have told her what kind of blood test or something to do. So that still happens too — the doctor isn’t even that old, but I found it outrageous. Then, I was at a nutrition seminar too, and what actually made me switch was that it was said quite explicitly, people are all getting older, people now normally live to 80-plus — the question is, from 60 to 80, does everyone enjoy their life, or do they already have their pill boxes lined up, the back doesn’t work anymore, walking doesn’t work either, the artificial knee is still — did they want that, or did they want to do something? And since I’m not that far from that threshold anymore, that was, I think it was a quarter-day seminar and that theme came back every day — I thought, hello, something’s going to change now, that was my pivot toward change. And one more thing, which we haven’t really discussed, this is a market that also offers a lot of opportunities. We had a — no, it’s an association that presented itself, and companies like Nestlé are involved too, which I can’t quite wrap my head around, who are simply addressing the topic of waste overall, saying, why do we have to live so lavishly, why can’t we, for example, in a hospital cafeteria and so on, look at cutting back a bit on the waste side. So, for example, they achieved this — they were at a cafeteria of a manufacturing company and suggested to management, why don’t you make the plates half the size, and if someone wants more, they can take a second helping. “Oh no, our people all work like animals, they need to eat more” — they implemented it anyway, and 5 percent came back for seconds, and they didn’t save 50 percent of the waste, but they did save 30 percent. And these are of course new movements too, that was really impressive — and they said they go into schools, hospitals, nursing homes, they go and get supported as an association by everyone involved with food in some way. That impressed me. Great room, have a nice day.
Great, thank you, thank you so much. And since you just talked about waste, that reminds me of the topic of food sharing too — not in the sense of packaging or similar, for example, but also in the direction of, we also produce in excess amounts, so that food ends up in the trash, so to speak, because it doesn’t get consumed, while elsewhere in the world people have nothing at all. And Alex, I know we talked about this once, and you know this field too and use it for yourself — so a very warm invitation to you to say something about food sharing briefly, and weave that into your final remarks, your closing words.
My final words, okay, last supper, last words, got it. I think food sharing has become a really, really great new movement. There are Facebook groups for it too, and I do it regularly — if I notice I bought too much, or I’m no longer in the mood for something, I list the items and they get picked up, because there’s just so much of it. I used to regularly pick up items from the big provider, the big supermarket, and then distribute them to homeless shelters, or bring them to an animal sanctuary for the animals, for the little pigs and whatever else, and just made sure the food kept getting used. And that requires awareness, and I think Layla said this, or Sabine, I don’t remember exactly, that it’s important that it’s already explained in school what food actually is, and not filler material, what these 99-cent rolls are, but actually food — where it comes from, how it’s made, how it has effects, how food can also be used as medicine, because that’s an opportunity we don’t see at all, and it’s so incredibly powerful. We don’t need all this chemistry nonsense — if we control things through nutrition, we can avoid or reduce a lot of illnesses, especially these lifestyle diseases and autoimmune diseases. Thanks for the great room.
Yes, great, thank you, thank you so much. And food sharing is actually something you can look into, if you’re interested — it really exists all across Germany, in many, many cities, and in some cases the cities are even divided into districts too, and so on. And it’s not about need or anything, it’s really about saving food and making sure, or helping ensure, that it doesn’t end up in the trash, in inverted commas. And that’s why I think it’s a really wonderful movement, and I can only recommend looking into it and researching it for your area, for your city, and possibly getting involved with one thing or another here too. Layla.
I wanted to say, Yasemin, halal is a big market — I’d recommend the show from the Datteltäter on that, because a lot of money gets made with it, and of course there are economic interests here too. The other thing I wanted to bring up is that I just thought, this food sharing thing is a really, really great thing, and still, in supermarkets, it’s often the case that, if it’s not being collected for the food bank — I once tried to get flowers a bit cheaper, because I said, hey, these are already dying — no, if we write them off, we get much more money for it that way. So there’s also active resistance against using food further, containering and things like that. I find that a really, really good factor. Yes, and I wanted to say, because it’s just not my sound, I think it’s cutting out — to close, I wanted to say — can you hear me?
Yes, it cut out for a bit in between, but we hear you again now.
A bit. Yes, I just wanted to say, well, we’ve mentioned Hippocrates often already, and he said, let food be your medicine and medicine be your food. It would be nice if things developed back in that direction, because since convenience food, a movement has developed called slow food — we didn’t have that before, and fermenting is also getting a huge hype again. And yes, I don’t know, we used to do all of that, and that’s why we need to move away from convenience food again, because we developed toward that for marketing reasons and because it’s simpler. So, what grandmother already knew how to do.
Yes, great, thank you, thank you so much. And here too you see again that when we talk about the future of nutrition, a lot of factors come together — starting with additives, which were really, really diverse, that we talked about today, whether those are additives or content-related aspects, so to speak. Then, on the other hand, various markets that emerge, all the way to health topics generally, because nutrition also has to do with health. That means the chain reactions here shouldn’t be underestimated either — we touched on this briefly. That means, if we’re not attentive on the one hand, don’t engage with this, then ultimately, viewed individually, we ourselves also contribute to, for example, developing symptoms in one place or another, because it becomes too much for the body. And so it’s worth looking at this more closely here too. Then we briefly talked about this chain reaction, illness, then medicine again, and so on, and that’s how we keep fueling the whole thing, in inverted commas — so we ourselves also make a contribution at this point too. So it’s not just about observing what’s happening on the market, but also considering, what contribution do I make to this too, in inverted commas, because that’s the first area where we can do something. And also to open up the market opportunities again, because wherever there are certain problems, new opportunities for certain markets emerge too. We just talked about halal, then we talked about dietary supplements, but more and more new markets keep emerging too — whether that’s something like soy, what gets made with soy, or maybe something like hemp products or similar. There’s a lot to observe here too, that’s really exciting, and it definitely makes sense to look at this with a certain curiosity, to keep getting into it — maybe not with the aspiration to become an expert yourself. I don’t think you’ll ever be able to fully penetrate this market either, just like in many other areas. But we can certainly, in one place or another, at least have an effect regarding our individual behavior, and on the other hand, from the perspective of maybe being self-employed or an entrepreneur, if this fits our field, also consider what opportunities might arise here too. And that doesn’t necessarily have to be your own food production or anything — we also talked about education, for example, there are a lot of adjacent fields where you might not even feel that connection, but if it’s something that suits you, that you engage with topically yourself too, it could also be an opportunity, for example, to offer educational work in this field, by offering seminars, for example. So just as an idea, so you don’t immediately feel, I have nothing to do with food, so this has nothing to do with me — there are opportunities to discover for yourself here too, possibly, if you think a bit outside the box. And so I find it really exciting to look into this with a certain curiosity and, yes, a researcher’s drive, so to speak, and to push aside certain unconscious biases and really engage with this topic — especially if you haven’t done so sufficiently in the past, to see what you can discover here too. And with that I’d like to wrap up for today. Tomorrow we continue with “The Future of Mobility” — how is the future of mobility changing? That’s the question we want to look at more concretely. That’ll certainly be really, really exciting too, I’m looking forward to it. Thank you, thank you so much for your intensive participation, and you’re warmly invited to join again tomorrow at 8, when we continue our topic at Deep Talk, under the overarching theme Pioneering Spirit with Brain. With that, until tomorrow.
