Brain Food for Pioneering Spirits: What actually happens in the moment your mind goes blank? Dr. Yasemin Yazan, Marc and Jürgen trace thinking blocks from stage fright and a real break-in scare to whole organizations gripped by wishful thinking — and land on an unlikely fix: deliberate provocation, engineered to shock people back into thought…
Note: This session was recorded live in German as part of the Deep Talk Club, so the video above is German-language audio only. What follows is an English translation of the conversation, lightly edited for readability — the back-and-forth between the moderator and participants is preserved, but the original timestamps and speaker names have been left out.
A very good morning. Today we continue with thinking blocks. What are thinking blocks, their effects, and what helps, is the question we want to engage with today. So I’m totally curious about the room today, and already curious about what intermediate results we can hold onto together. So you’re all really, really warmly invited to join again today too, bring in various perspectives, the first thoughts you have on the topic, maybe you also have concrete examples we can pick up and use to work our way along. And again briefly the note, as always, that we record again today too, the entire time, and that it also gets published accordingly later. That means, anyone who joins is automatically agreeing that the whole thing gets recorded and published. We have three small room rules. A profile picture where you’re recognizable, first and last name, and at least one sentence in the bio. And you also have, as always today too, the possibility to interact via the chat, so to speak. Yes, with that I’ll mute myself briefly and see who’d like to join this morning. A very good morning, dear Marc. What do you say to the topic?
Yes, first of all I think egotistically totally about myself, and I first hope I don’t have a thinking block right now, because this thinking block, when you speak in front of people or tell someone something, that’s not a pleasant feeling. And I also assume that’s one of the main reasons why you’re afraid, or why you have to train that, speaking in front of people. Because these thinking blocks can really bring someone into a very, very unpleasant situation in that situation.
Yes, absolutely. And especially speaking is a nice example accordingly, in front of people, actually one of the biggest fears in the German-speaking region too, even though we speak almost everywhere every day and are almost constantly in interaction. It’s when it suddenly comes to speaking in front of a group, and the eyes are directed at you, that obviously triggers something emotionally, which leads quite many people to shy away from it. And you notice that then physically, possibly already through various symptoms. So certain reactions are simply there too. Something like, already while the hand is raised, to ask a question for example, or similar, that possibly there’s a sweat outbreak, or the heart skips faster, races all the way to racing, and maybe you get quite warm too. And those are already special signs. That means, especially when that’s coupled with certain emotional things. So that’s just one example now, especially fear triggers various things. And that can then lead to one or another shying away. But now the question is, assuming the person is then on stage, or has raised their hand to speak in front of others, what actually happens then? Because there are people for whom it’s obviously difficult, and maybe you even notice a bit that they’re nervous or similar, but they still manage quite well. And then there are also people who, maybe just in this situation, forget what they actually wanted to ask or say or similar. That means, obviously they can no longer retrieve some information, stored information. And we want to look exactly at that with regard to thinking blocks. And that’s why I’m totally curious, Marc, what you say about that.
Yes, let me summarize again. So I hold myself — I also learned this from Jürgen — how you handle the topic of thinking block, so for me a thinking block, that’s already in the word, my thinking process gets blocked there, or gets stuck. And then I get into a state where I temporarily have difficulties either grasping a clear thought, or retrieving information, or generating a creative idea. And to pick up your example now, what you said here on stage — basically I find that totally great and exciting, that all the topics now, that we’ve had in the last days and weeks in your Deep Talk Club, come together again for me. Because this asking and questioning is also, before I come on stage, by clarifying to myself, okay, when I notice — and I’ve found this about myself too — that with some topics I sweat very strongly, then I ask myself, why is that, when topics grip me emotionally? And when I get onto an emotional topic, then it’s much, much harder for me, and then I fall off track much, much faster than when the topic isn’t so emotional. So I already know, when someone lures me onto emotionally thin ice — you don’t do that, that’s why I feel very comfortable with you. But if this were now a TV discussion, I’d know that if someone lures me onto emotionally thin ice, my statements could turn out quite differently, and so on. And what arises in me then? Stress, so sweat outbreak, that’s probably caused by stress too. And if I know that in advance, what causes me stress, then of course through this topic we’ve had, thinking, reflecting, considering and learning, I can know, that triggers stress. And ask myself, what triggers stress? What happens to you here, when I speak with Yasemin? And dear Yasemin, that’s a big difference. Even though I now, I admit, even though I’m with you almost every day and participate on this platform with you, I’d think very hard about whether I feel trained enough to appear in a show, in a political show, like Lanz, to be interviewed. Because I’d have a different feeling, well knowing that I’m going on a stage where it’s not just about a reflection room, where we treat each other respectfully. I don’t want to say that journalists don’t treat us respectfully. But the journalist has the task of putting me under stress, to get information. On one hand A, so that I blurt out something I wouldn’t otherwise have said. B, to hear whether I can actually deliver answers, and so on. So the situation for me with a professional interviewer — with that I’m not saying you’re not professional, I’m just saying the intention of speaking with you is a completely, completely different one. I feel safe, safely taken care of here, because it’s a reflection room where the rules from the moderator — and that’s you, dear Yasemin — are clearly defined. That means, we treat each other respectfully. I’ve myself already experienced being approached, yes, not badly, I can live with it, but emotionally approached, where you immediately intervened, said, I don’t tolerate that here. Everyone is allowed to say their opinion here. We speak factually with each other, and you intervene immediately. And that of course gives me, and hopefully everyone else too, a certain form of security, which lowers the stress level for me. Because I basically, when I’ve been in your rooms several times, know exactly what awaits me here.
Yes, wonderful. Thank you so, so much. And especially the examples you also picked up with journalists and politicians, for example. There we also quickly get into this area where it becomes clear, or comprehensible, that there can quite clearly not just be possible thinking blocks on one hand, but on the other hand also the question, can you do something against that? That it obviously also has something to do with a certain training, to also feel more secure over time in such situations, for example, be quicker-witted in the answers and similar. That means, we can also directly pick up this aspect in this context too. Here too, again, not just being at the mercy of the whole thing, in quotation marks, and not being able to take influence on it, but that it’s also connected with a certain training, whether we can then accordingly also handle certain situations, or how well we can then handle it in certain situations. And with that I’d also like to warmly invite the others again. Maybe there are also examples you’ve experienced yourselves, or situations where you yourselves had this, yes, once. Maybe you can describe that, and maybe also look at it based on that, or you have other quite abstract thoughts we can pick up, to work our way along together. Gladly join, to open up various perspectives. Thinking blocks, what are thinking blocks, their effects, and what helps, is the question we want to engage with the topic today. So, the more perspectives, examples we get from various sides, the more diversity we also have in the room, to actually look at it from various lenses. Marc, have you yourself already experienced something like that, that you experienced thinking blocks yourself in certain moments?
Oh yes, and that would actually be the first sentence. I thought about how I’d start. Actually that would have been the first sentence. Emotions, emotions. I keep coming back to emotions and feelings. And the strongest thinking block, and the biggest challenge I have — I rolled into myself, so reflected, where thinking blocks arise for me. And you’ve told it yourself several times in your environment, dear Yasemin, when I encounter people, my keyword is sympathy, whom I don’t find likeable, and there definitely are those. Why don’t I find them likeable? Well, because they maybe don’t share my same values, or because they have a completely opposite opinion. And managing to go into the helicopter perspective, so if someone really isn’t of my opinion — and you described that really well once, if I were to talk with a right-wing extremist, where I really don’t share the values — not switching off immediately and listening to them, and, what Andreas Wollermann always says, do I manage to listen to understand, or listen to answer. That’s still the biggest challenge for me, and that’s very, very strongly dependent on sympathy, and sympathy is important, also in business, otherwise no insurance would ever be sold. And the second point, I hope, and dear Jürgen, I’m hereby inviting you, that I thought about for a very long time yesterday. Jürgen mentioned the word knowledge, to what extent knowledge, and also lack of knowledge, can lead to thinking blocks. Yes, we had the situation last week that I had a thinking block exactly in a broadcast, you could also say a knot in the head. And that’s also because when we talk and I use words he doesn’t understand, or when I have a statement that doesn’t match your values at all, then we immediately start thinking, he’s not right, I have a different opinion. You can’t follow the statements at all anymore, because my brain can’t manage that, it immediately starts, how can he say something like that, I don’t feel that at all, I see that totally differently, and in the moment where I think about how I see it, and can also justify how I see it, I’m already miles behind your further remarks, I’m lagging there, and noticing this itself, this reflection, that as soon as my emotions are attacked again. So as soon as someone moves me onto emotional ground, it’s totally hard to maintain full attention. Then thinking blocks arise, which has also led for me to distraction — I can distract myself through thoughts, that would then be the last point, then I’ll stop, I can distract myself through thoughts. And a month ago I decided to switch off the sending functions on my phone that distract me. I don’t get email anymore, I don’t get WhatsApp anymore, I only retrieve those consciously now. But it bothers me in this room, when I’m speaking with you, if a WhatsApp flashes up, or an email comes in. I see that after all. I’ll do that after the room, because that can also immediately trigger thinking blocks for me, by me thinking, oh man, you have to answer that now. That’s important. You have to react immediately. I don’t have that information now. I’m fully concentrated, totally relaxed, and will retrieve this information at 9am and only then deal with a new topic again.
Yes, thank you so, so much. And I’ve also brought two examples with me, especially very contrasting examples, even though the context is relatively similar. And here too I’m totally curious what you say about that. One was a situation where I was actually alone at home at night, many years ago already, and heard the door click at night, and was convinced that a burglar was inside now. I actually also heard someone, heard breathing etc. too. And I can still remember very, very precisely what that did to me, and on one hand my racing heart was so loud audible to me that I almost had the feeling the burglar must even hear that, which of course isn’t rational, but basically every movement I made, I tried to make so slow and quiet, because I had the impression that it could otherwise be heard. And in that moment actually this — I don’t know if you can even call it a thinking block — but actually still in motion and trying to act, or actually consider what would now be the cleverest thing, in quotation marks. And it later resolved that it wasn’t a burglar, but someone who had a key who was there. But for the moment I lived through that, it was really absolutely real. And the opposite example to that, another situation, where I also came home again years ago, and saw light on inside. And assumed another family member was there. Then tried to unlock the door. It didn’t work. Which led to me actually knocking, and so on, and ringing the bell, because I simply thought, okay, the person who went inside,
probably put the key in the door from the inside, and that’s why I can’t get in from outside, it never even occurred to me that it could be. And there’s the question of whether that isn’t maybe also a kind of thinking block. It never even occurred to me that it could be a burglar. And there actually was a burglar inside at that moment. That means it was even good that I didn’t get in. And that only got resolved after I, so to speak, called the family member and determined that the person wasn’t there, so wasn’t at home, to then subsequently notify the police accordingly. And that means, we sometimes do have situations where we, for example, have misjudgments, or don’t correctly realize the context at all, and precisely against this background, maybe also have a thinking block, in quotation marks. So is that then also a thinking block, or do we actually only understand a thinking block as, even though the situation was correctly classified, so to speak, that you then can’t act, because for example in the moment you’re not able to actually think with the senses accordingly, to reflect, and also make decisions about what’s now the best possible option to deal with that too. Marc, what do you say to that?
I can only underline that. The longer I live, I keep coming back to the fact that emotion is the biggest block and the biggest driver. In your case, the emotion is fear. I can only confirm that. For me it’s such that I always take my glasses into the bedroom. Why? Because I thought about it, should someone break in at my place. I’m blind as a mole with minus 6 or minus 7. Then I couldn’t even flee. I wouldn’t even see where I’m fleeing to. So the glasses are necessary, they always lie by me in bed, so that in an emergency I can go out through another door, disappear via the neighbor, via the balconies. But since I live on the fourth floor, I’d be very reluctant to… I’d be reluctant to do that anyway, because I’m not free from vertigo. But even more reluctant would I do that without glasses. So I’ve gotten into the habit of always having the glasses lying next to me, so that in case of a sound, an intrusion into my sovereign territory, I have a possibility to get out through another door. And for that I need A, my glasses, and B, my phone, to be able to call for help in an emergency too. But the emotions, dear Yasemin, the emotions keep leading to that. And yes, that’s a thinking block. Emotions lead to us not being able to find solutions, think creatively. That happens to us when we lose our job, when we lose a family member, when we suddenly get fired, when suddenly revenue collapses, and so on and so on. We’re then always in a rigid emotion. And that’s exactly why I find — we keep coming back to this — if you have a coach or a partner or a person who asks us questions in this situation. Questions we could also ask ourselves, but in the moment it doesn’t work. We sometimes can’t ask ourselves quite simple and clear questions, by someone sitting quite calmly opposite us and saying, “Marc, is what you’re thinking now correct? How do you get to that? I see that differently, or explain how do you get to that? You could also see that differently. Try a change of perspective.” So someone who’s in a state of calm — they’re automatically that, because they’re not emotionally affected by a situation the way we are. And someone who’s not emotionally affected will always give us different answers than people who are emotionally involved. And that’s why for me it’s also advisable, be it for relationship questions and so on and so on, to never talk about that with friends, because friends are always partial — nothing ever comes out of that for me. Because then there are those who say, yes, I can’t understand that either, you’re right, do that. Or also say, no, you — so I, I always get the best information from people who are totally value-free, value-free in the sense of sympathy, who aren’t un-lobbied and simply say — value-free and above all emotion-free, how they judge a situation. And that works more in the professional context than in the private too.
Yes, wonderful. Thank you so, so much. And then I’d like to bring in Jürgen first, and then we can gladly make cross-connections again too. A very good morning. Jürgen, what do you say to the topic?
Good morning, dear Yasemin, hello Marc and everyone else in the room. I’m picking up two initials. As one, your example with this burglar you had to endure, experience. And as two, the last comment from Marc, which in my view goes beyond the pure self- or individual-person perspective. To the first point, how it is, I’ll come to that at the beginning of the example. Every thing has two sides, and the thinking block, in my view, also has a positive side. Because especially in such a case as happened to you, in a state of very clear surprise and the unexpected, we react emotionally after all, and fall back on our inherent patterns, these famous 4 F’s. And in my view, exactly this emotional reacting, this willful switching off of logical questioning and thinking, what’s happening now, has its reason, namely to protect myself, to compensate for harm or a danger accordingly through flight, or possibly also through attack. So I see, in this respect, also a positive side to the thinking block. And the second initial, Marc led me to the position — we had, two, three days ago I think it was, the topic of change management. I think, no I don’t think, I know, I know for certain. Not just an individual position can have thinking blocks, but a whole organization, a company. So Darius recruits, so to speak, from many areas with the corresponding competence. The position of the management consultant, especially in the organizational area, where it’s about, in common consensus or however, I don’t want to go into that right now, dissolving a thinking block formed in the whole organization. Those two positions I’d like to bring in. Thanks for listening, dear ones.
Yes wonderful, thank you so, so much, and let’s maybe also pick up as a further impulse here again the biochemical processes in the background, to see how we can classify that accordingly in the exchange too. Basically, so on one hand we’ve talked about emotions, on the other hand, what actually happens as a cocktail in the background in my brain? And what basically happens in such stress situations is ultimately that adrenaline and noradrenaline come into play at that point. That means, I react, for example, to a threat or to acute stress with the release of adrenaline and noradrenaline. And what I then feel — I described that in this example context too — the cardiovascular system revs up, and important energy reserves get released, and attention increases. And ultimately it’s about being able to concentrate better in the end. But now that sounds a bit contradictory at first with, well, how does that relate to thinking now actually? And there you just delivered a very important clue, Jürgen. While we have on one hand, for example, things like abstract thinking, solution-oriented thinking, reflecting, so checking thinking, etc., various forms of thinking. And here it’s now about making a decision relatively quickly, so to speak. So do I go over to rigid flight or whatever. That means, in that moment it’s not about cognitively, so to speak, going into some kind of reflection for a long time, but it’s about relatively quickly, for example, securing survival. And there I don’t have — then the body knows, now a decision has to be made immediately, so to speak, without much ado. And accordingly the corresponding hormones get released, so that I’m then also able, so to speak, energy reserves released, to immediately go into attention and immediately make a decision, without thinking about it for long. And this kind of thinking then, so, possibly those are also thinking processes that do take place there, but they differ from what we’ve opened up in many places now, at other points, with the various forms of thinking, where it’s already also very much about, for example, actually having a certain amount of time available, to look at it from various perspectives or similar. What do you say to that, Marc, Jürgen?
Gladly, Jürgen. Yes, heartfelt thanks, as always, for this fantastic transition and underpinning of what was said, dear Yasemin. You addressed two positions, which — let me pick that up again what Marc said at the beginning, that we exchanged in advance about this room. And my first impulse was, and I said that to Marc too, how do I even recognize that it’s a thinking block? And in contrast especially to not-knowing, that I lack knowledge, knowledge states, or on the other hand really that these knowledge states are there, knowledge is present, but I can’t access it at the moment. And there, besides this conscious example, that there are situations where this thinking, this System 2, which after all needs a long time, longer time, doesn’t get engaged, to prevent a disaster, the second point in time, the second position, is what you said, sorry, the time. The time, namely, in my view I only come to a thinking block myself, if I want to determine that, after I’ve thought and determine, I’m not coming to a result. And that’s exactly this branching, where I then have to question, am I not coming to a result because I don’t know, or because something is blocking me, because I’m somehow in an emotional state I’m in, because I’m overstressed or the like. Exactly recognizing this distinction, because I think that’s decisive for the second point you addressed, how do I deal with that and what are the alternative solutions for it? So again heartfelt thanks for this transition and interpretation.
Yes wonderful, thank you so, so much. And yes, and that’s exactly what we want to look at today too. That means, what helps was also one of the questions, and maybe also as an impulse or as a note on the side. We also know that adrenaline, for example, does get released in certain situations, but it’s not like it gets released for an hour or so, but it’s like a kind of small kick that happens there, and can last up to maybe several minutes. Usually, after about 90 seconds it’s actually already largely broken down again, in quotation marks, so that we can also act normally again, think and act, but it can also be several minutes until it’s completely broken down and no longer detectable, so to speak. But if we also, for example, this could also already be something you can pick up with regard to what helps. That means, I possibly can’t, in a situation where I’m, for example, in danger — there it has its meaning and purpose, that adrenaline also gets released. There it shouldn’t be the goal to ask yourself the question, can I somehow prevent adrenaline from being released, but well knowing that it needs a certain time and then gets broken down again, I can then possibly also come back into thinking with reason again, so to speak. That can already have a calming effect, that’s one thing. The other thing is, we don’t always have danger situations that actually represent a real danger or a real threat. So if we pick up the example again with fear of public speaking, which is very often present, then it’s not really about survival in that sense. There we’re not threatened body and soul, so to speak, but it’s something, in quotation marks, where we possibly also work ourselves up a bit, out of the fear, about what that does to us. And here maybe also to distinguish both again, and then look again at what actually helps, for example, in such situations. Marc, would you like to add here again too?
Yes, of course. And specifically, the background — I keep coming back to the emotions, and I’d like to say beforehand too that it just occurred to me too, that when we talk about thinking blocks, it’s totally exciting what you can consciously produce in others as thinking blocks, especially in politics. Thinking blocks belong for me now also on a different path. That’s one of the strongest instruments to win voter votes, because we work with emotions there. And to these emotions, and to your room, dear Yasemin, I can only say, that’s exactly the difference. When I enter a room where it’s about conversation, and you have to become clear about this — we all talk to each other after all, it’s not fear of speaking, because when I go to the doctor, I have to talk and say — if I’m hungry and in the city, I go to the sausage stand and say, I’d like to buy the sausage. Why am I not afraid there? I thought about that for a long time. I’m not afraid there because I know exactly that the other person won’t insult me, because I’m not going into a confrontation, because they’re nice to me. And this niceness gives me a really, really great feeling of security. If I now go into a broadcast where I know, I’m the chairman of a company, where I get asked about environmental questions, where I get asked about my personnel policy, my product policy, my political values, then I know that’s a completely different starting basis. The journalist has the task of questioning that. I need completely different preparation. I need training with resilience. I have to practice exactly what you said, that I don’t answer questions. If you ask me now, dear Yasemin,
yes dear Marc, what are you doing this afternoon, or something private, then I still have the possibility to say, well, I don’t want to answer that here in this room, and then I know, that’s good. None of us who does that gets pressed further on that. In a confrontation, in a public discourse, then I also know that you’re so trained that with several questions, also again with emotions, you might manage to coax an answer out of me after all, because you’re exactly trained for that, to set my emotions, or lift my thinking blocks, or however. And I can only recommend to everyone — for me this is really, I told Jürgen this too, for me the Deep Talk Club is simply also an insane exercise, dissolving thinking blocks, building self-confidence, and with this conversation I’ve had with you, then starting further into the day, and afterward having a different kind of conversation, namely acquisition conversations, customer conversations, and so on. And it just helps if you manage to observe yourself in a nice atmosphere, so a calm atmosphere, where nothing can happen, how do I feel, what’s happening there, and every time such a room ends, to think, oh, that wasn’t so bad after all, and we even laughed together, and I’ve also had slips of the tongue, and you also recently had a slip of the tongue, I’m so grateful for that, dear Yasemin, with these buttons, with these not knots in the head, but buttons in the head — because I know Yasemin is such an absolute professional, you’re really a speaking professional, you have a great voice, you can form great sentences, and I know that happens to all of us, and if you then know that can happen to everyone, that gives you, or at least me, a really, really good feeling, because it’s simply human that we have our slips of the tongue.
Yes wonderful, thank you so, so much. I’d like to put the question “what helps” aside for a small moment for now. I’d like to pick up the second point again that Jürgen addressed, namely from the context of change management, that whole companies and organizations are also subject to thinking blocks. Maybe let’s look at that briefly too, separately, so to speak, from what’s been said so far, to check what that actually is. Does that also have something to do with emotions? Can all parts of an organization somehow have the same emotions, in quotation marks, the same feelings? Or what’s that connected with, that we maybe look at where there are overlaps, or maybe also differences? Do you have connecting points there again, gladly, Marc?
Yes, I’ll claim that. I’m really no specialist there. I happened to talk with Jürgen just now about this topic in another context, and specifically I’ll claim that we, we’re an export nation, and one of our most important products is the automobile industry. And I’ll just claim now, I hope I don’t get a letter from a lawyer tomorrow, that we’ve basically just said goodbye to the automobile industry. And why I put this thesis into the room is a single piece of news that shocked me a lot. I don’t need to have any knowledge of the technology. We all know we’re heading toward the self-driving car, so toward automated driving. What do you need for automated driving? We need batteries, and we need laser technology. We need laser technology, otherwise the whole thing doesn’t work in the line. And Bosch and another big corporation in Germany decided to exit this laser technology. Why? Because it takes too long for them, and because they currently can’t generate money with it. That’s of course not the opinion of the entire organization, but that’ll be the case in many organizations, that’s a management and board level. We don’t earn money with that, a few people decide that, and that’s exactly the difference to China. I don’t want to live in that country, again, that’s not my favorite song — favorite song, I’m already seeing thinking blocks and slips of the tongue again. In China, the difference between China and Germany is simply that there are people who’ve said, I don’t care at all what you want, I don’t find it good. In economic contexts that can sometimes be sensible, and specifically China has kept an eye on what the key technologies are that secure our survival and our economy. And the key technologies for the Chinese were quite clearly solar technology, wind energy, self-driving, and electromobility. And we’ve exited all these technologies. That’s just an example of what happens in a corporation.
Yes, thank you so, so much. And in this context something else occurs to me too. So if that now, there are always decisions in corporations that get broken down from above, so to speak, where maybe not necessarily the whole team stands behind it, or not even the majority. But there an example occurs to me now in this context. I can still remember, it’s already been a while, that I once saw that somewhere. It was also automobile industry again, some company that’s lagging quite far behind. I don’t remember exactly which one that was, but that’s not bad either, we don’t need to name names here, that’s maybe even quite good. There it was about Tesla and so on, and the news that Tesla is also coming to Berlin, to build a factory there and build cars. And there was quite a lot of outrage in one company, all the way to the union. And there were even some demonstrations, so to speak, in front of the plant, and commitments in that direction. So, in the sense that, so to speak, the message was, we’ll show them who’s better — basically against the background of exactly these technologies that aren’t there, or aren’t being pursued further, or similar, but still based on and building on this old thinking, so to speak, and not in the sense of, we’re now conceiving the best self-driving car, or not really reflected, how far along are we actually with what we’re doing, but an insanely distorted picture, from my — I only read that, perceived it, followed it, and thought, I find that crazy. And those weren’t individual people, but really complete, partly interviews that were conducted at that time with the team, so to speak, various representatives from the company, both employees and also people from the union and so on. And there, I think, we get into this area that Jürgen mentioned, so to speak, that entire companies or organizations maybe then also have, yes, thinking blocks possibly at one point or another, or represent certain things so distorted for themselves, for them, that thinking blocks arise from that, without them even realizing that thinking blocks are present here too. Jürgen, what do you say to that?
Thank you, dear ones. I’ll try to bring together the two positions addressed in the last contributions. And specifically, Marc’s example in his second-to-last contribution with this fear of public speaking. This fear of public speaking as a trigger of a thinking block, that runs conceptually for me under an expectation shock. That means, something occurs that possibly — someone I actually want to communicate with at eye level provokes me. Something occurs that I didn’t expect. I don’t want to go into the alternatives, or the possible solutions now, but that for me connects back to the topic of knowledge. It already helps a lot if you know that something like that can happen, to then define for yourself how to deal with it. That’s one position, the personal position. Dear Yasemin, with the topic of the blockage of an organization, for me that’s not an expectation shock, but a stability shock. I’ll call it that quite deliberately now, as counter-positions, because a company exists essentially, besides the business idea, and hopefully good products, especially from the organization and the structure. And this structure, structure is always defined for that, and aligned by purpose toward a possible stability over time, to make implemented processes profitable over time and frequency, and via security, that everyone who deals with this company can proceed from a certain, from a secure expectation. And now I come to the actual point, hopefully with connection to the thinking block. This organization of course also secures that via corresponding mechanisms, and those can on one hand be taboos, or a supporting of yes-man behavior, where I promote people who constantly talk after my word, and negate others when it comes to promotion. But it can also be, and there I come to various interviews recently in the topics of our republic, that you engage in glossing over. And that’s, for me, a sure sign that something isn’t right. That this company has a thinking block, glosses over the position, and thereby shows itself unwilling to change. And dissolving this thinking block is now, due to the dimension, no longer — my personal opinion is no longer just a position, a confrontation, a consultation in the management board, or even a single chairman, but this thinking block has, in my view, more of an individual dimension, so that if I want to dissolve a thinking block in an organization, I first have to think about who’s even able, in the end, to be the driver and the propeller to dissolve these thinking blocks. That’s, for me, in summary, a different dimension, and I say again, it’s also a different, a different initial that comes about, why these thinking blocks occur. Thanks for listening.
Yes wonderful, thank you so, so much. And I also find in this context this aspect of the need for security was also a really important point we can pick up again. That means, these structures etc. too, which pay into stability and thereby also this need for security, we of course don’t only have that on this scale of an entire company, but also on a small scale, quite well, if we think about it, for example, with regard to the individual person, possibly a family construct etc. That means, we can already observe similar phenomena that have just been described in a smaller context too. And I find that, besides the emotions that have been addressed, these needs also play a role, and the expectations that were also addressed here again. That means, various factors can come together here, which have a corresponding role, an influence on whether we have thinking blocks or not. And that maybe just briefly, to hold onto that. And with that I’d then like to actually look again with regard to the question of the room. What are thinking blocks, their effects, and what helps? That we also pick up this last “what helps” aspect again here too. We’ve already gone a bit in that direction. And we — I’ll gladly open a few more doors here too, also with connection to other rooms we’ve had. We’ve talked in the context of emotions, for example, in the past already about reframing. Then we had the sentence, the best fear management, so to speak, in essence, is simply to go through the fear, so gather positive experiences with what I’m afraid of. And the keyword resilience came up again too. I’d like to pick that up again too, since we’ve talked about that in the past too. And that maybe as the first impulses. You can gladly add again, pick up and deepen, or also add further aspects. Marc, Jürgen, what do you say to that? Gladly, Marc.
Yes, and specifically I’ll start now with the change of perspective. So how do we get out of thinking blocks? How do we start with the change of perspective, and go back to entrepreneurs again? Why do they do that? Are entrepreneurs stupid? No, entrepreneurs are of course not stupid. The change of perspective is there, to what I just said, is, why do they do that? Well, they maybe do it because investors are stronger than entrepreneurs, because we now want to make profit, and because investors maybe won’t be alive in 20 years, and what happens then, we’ll see, and then politics comes into play again. Another example for this part is, for example, housing. It also comes into the newspapers every day, that we have a building material shortage for apartments. It’s not invested in, there are dozens of apartments standing empty that are needed. But a change of perspective is also, do we really need more apartments? I can’t say, I just keep reading that extremely many apartments stand empty, not just here, but also in Great Britain. Why? Because an empty apartment gets much, much more money, meaning investors. Also in Frankfurt, I talked with someone who’s also not doing badly professionally, he said that there are also entire apartment blocks in Frankfurt, entire apartments, entire complexes standing empty. Why do they stand empty? Because that’s simply a speculation object. And that would be the change of perspective, to get to new answers there. And then the second example, how we can get out of a thinking block. And that would be my question to you, dear Yasemin. I was at a training yesterday and heard for the first time that for our brain to make new decisions, it needs a certain frequency state. I can’t explain the finer details to you, but apparently they found out that the brain simply finds easy answers in a certain state. And to get into this state, of course one possibility — we’ve all noticed this before — to dissolve the thinking block, is sport, or also a walk in the forest. And definitely leaving the workplace. Because in this other environment, when we come to rest, we suddenly find
answers we of course can’t find at all in the emotional area, so in a stress situation. Can you maybe say something more detailed about that, to what extent the state of rest and the frequency range of our brain play a role, to maybe get out of a thinking block?
So I can’t answer that in detail, because I’m not familiar with the frequencies right now. But it’s known that there are different brain frequencies, and that something like meditation or similar then also has an influence on these frequencies. What the individual frequencies are called now, which waves, which waves we’re talking about, and so on. There’s different research on that, you might have to read up on that yourselves, if that interests you. But de facto it’s also, especially if we pick up everything under this keyword resilience etc. for example, those are also aspects that ultimately also take influence on that to a degree. That means, things like mindfulness training, or coming to rest, meditating, etc., those are all aspects. Or we’ve talked about this before, movement also plays a role. Sleep plays a role. So all of that are various aspects that have a positive influence here. And what you address, whoever would like to go deeper into that, can gladly research a bit more and just look it up again. And I’d also like to pick up the question from the chat in this context, maybe too. Isn’t burnout also a kind of thinking block against an overflow of compulsion to think? So we can definitely hold onto the fact that if adrenaline levels are kept high permanently, or cortisol levels in the blood, that can also lead to sleep disorders, to depression, all the way to burnout. That means, there’s definitely a connection here too. That means, if the stress level is kept high permanently, then that also has an effect at some point, so to speak, that it can also create a disease pattern, because over a certain time — that’s not meant short-term now, but really over a certain time, continuously, persistently — it leads to the body no longer being in a balance. All the more important, and we’ve also talked about this before, we have very many situations in everyday life that we maybe don’t even perceive as too threatening, but something like constantly consuming negative news too. The TV gets switched on and it’s one drama after another playing out, then an overload of work at work itself, and so on and so forth. Those are all factors that, so to speak, come together. And in contrast to earlier, in quotation marks, where we were, if we really were, threatened with life, we don’t have that situation anymore today. But today we have many, many small situations, so to speak, that accumulate, that in sum can simply also ensure that this stress level, so to speak, gets kept high permanently, and that also constitutes one of the disease patterns. So whether that’s now depression, whether that’s sleep disorders, whether over time it’s burnout. There are quite different disease patterns we can open up here, and that’s also connected with such aspects. Exactly, so that, and ultimately, if we, if we say that in the moment where adrenaline gets released and so on, that it has an effect on our thinking processes, then we can also more easily understand that a permanently high stress level, caused by whatever. And here experiencing also plays a really big role. That means, for one person a certain situation isn’t perceived as stress, for another it is. That also plays a role. And there we’re also back at emotions ultimately. How do I evaluate the whole thing too? And all the more important these aspects too, what helps? Something like reframing, for example. How do I deal with it? How do I evaluate that too? And, and, and, are all aspects that ultimately play a role here, whether I get sick from that over time, for example, or whether I manage to handle it well. Would you like to add here again? Gladly first Jürgen, then Marc.
Yes, thank you, dear ones. I wanted to go back to the question, or the topic, of your second-to-last contribution, and specifically to concretize these positions, or that, what helps? And since I was responsible for, or am responsible for, expanding operations to an organization, let me draw on a method from my experiential treasure in dealing with such thinking blocks in companies, that’s partly proven itself, and there another point would come in, one you can splendidly discuss. Under which preconditions are certain methods for dissolving thinking blocks even useful at all, or what do they need to satisfy? But to come back to that again, from my experiential environment, a very, very drastic but very effective countermeasure is deliberate provocation. So not primarily, not this wanting-to-understand. I say quite deliberately, not primarily wanting to understand, but I’ll say an example, if someone as responsible for the company says, we need change management, because we have a rigidity, a thinking rigidity, it’s not developing further, and I then ask, is that your problem, and he then says, yes, that’s a problem, then I provoke and say, then let’s just live with the problem. Then we’re not solving the problem, but we’re living with the problem. And that’s one of the possible positions, and mind you, the situation and also the environment has to fit for this method to be applied. But that’s, for me, from experience — I’ve had the experience of a really effective position to pick up the blockages, namely that in the moment, that person — now we come back to this expectation shock in the positive sense — didn’t expect such a position, and thereby comes into thinking. And that’s, for me, actually the essential and the first goal at all of such a supporting process to dissolve a thinking block. As I said, provocation would be, for me, such a probative means with regard to thinking blocks in companies.
Yes wonderful, thank you so much, and what then occurs, so to speak, or what the goal is, is ultimately the irritation. The irritation, which then ultimately leads back to thinking, and thereby can also initiate a change again. That can be triggered by a provocation. But there are also other means that ultimately serve, so to speak, with the goal of irritation, for this surprise effect, so that then an initial gets set to think about it, and can bring about corresponding possible behavior changes accordingly. Wonderful, thank you so, so much. Marc, you also wanted to add.
Yes, for me it’s such that — so I’ve managed to dissolve thinking blocks by finding, unfortunately, that I observe about myself, mindfulness, where do I even have stress? And I was at a doctor once this year because I had back problems, and he first did a stress test with me. And I answered, in full self-confidence, we can skip that, I’m the most relaxed person there is. And then did this stress test. And the measurement data showed something different. And then I found out that there are probably many things in the subconscious that I don’t even perceive as stress at all. But which are still present. Even though I think I have high resilience. That’s the health of my father, my health. The thoughts about how the business will develop. And, and, and. And I try to counter that. Through mindfulness, really through taking breaks. And among other things through distraction. Distraction also triggers thinking blocks for me too. And I’ve now consciously decided, yes, emails are important. And I’m also on LinkedIn, and I’m also on WhatsApp. But switching off this notification, that I consciously get messages myself. And I’ve switched off everything that triggers push notifications for me, so there’s a message, because that lets me experience the day much, much more relaxed and even more stress-free, because then there are time windows for me where I process things, and I then don’t get into this distraction anymore. Because through this realization, as I said, there seem to be things I can’t name all of now, because I don’t know them, that trigger stress, even though I was 100 percent convinced I had no stress at all.
Yes, that’s also great. That means, we don’t always realize that either. And that ultimately also has something to do with the way we live, so to speak. And here too, ultimately, research results show that it should also be viewed relatively holistically. So that means, there are various aspects. So we don’t realize all of that either, if we can’t, for example, look at how the values look based on a blood test, so to speak. But ultimately both the behavior plays a role, so to speak, movement plays a role. Then we have relaxation, in whatever form, plays a role. And nutrition plays a role. So, whoever would like to look deeper into that can also gladly check the Knowledge Base. I’d picked up this BERN concept there, based on research results, so to speak, from Professor Dr. Esch, I believe. And that’s totally exciting, because based on these results that were determined, these findings, they also researched, so to speak, to see what actually helps, and developed a concept here, with quite concrete tips even, in the sense of looking at this holistically too. Because precisely with certain things, like nutrition for example, that doesn’t noticeably cause thinking blocks for me, or immediately make me sick. I often don’t even realize that at many points at all. And so, becoming aware of the fact that it’s far more than just the emotion, the adrenaline kick I perceive. There I also notice it physically, in that moment, that something’s happening with me. But there are various influences that come together here. And so it makes sense to look at that here too. Knowledge Base, you find that on the yaseminyazan.com page under the Knowledge Base tab. And then under stress management you also find this BERN concept I just talked about. So you can also gladly look there for more depth. With a view to the time, I’d like to move into wrapping up for today. Marc, Jürgen, what are your highlights from the room today?
I’d like to add something, dear Yasemin. I’d add sleep too. With sleep too, I now try in the evening, when I go to bed, to remember something nice from the day, and not think about news. I found out a few months ago, I always woke up at night, I didn’t have sleep difficulties, but I often woke up. I probably manage better, though I can’t prove it, if I think of something nice, if I fall asleep with a smile on my face, I sleep through longer, and more hours in a period, than if I think of something unpleasant. And I make myself aware of that, and that’s why I always try in the evening, when I go to bed, to remember something from the day. That can be delicious coffee, that can be a phone call with Jürgen, whatever. There must have been something nice, and I find it too if I search for it.
Yes, great. Thank you so, so much. We mentioned it briefly earlier, but it’s also important to underline again that sleep also plays a really essential role. And maybe here another recommendation. We had Dr. Martin Schlott with us as a sleep expert at the author’s breakfast. Maybe also listen into the podcasts again, into the respective author’s breakfast with Dr. Martin Schlott. There were also quite many aspects with regard to sleep and the relevance of sleep included too. And that maybe helps at this point again too. And for those who might ask now in the chat, where do we actually find the podcast? On all sorts of channels, and also look for the links again, because there are so many different links, we can’t list them all. So whether that’s now Apple Podcast, whether that’s Amazon, whether that’s Google. Basically on all sorts of common channels where podcasts get published, we can be found accordingly there too, always as Deep Talk Club, and then under the corresponding category, so either author’s breakfast or expert talks and so on. And you find the author’s breakfast in the category author’s breakfast. And whoever would like to check again regarding links or such can also gladly check on the deeptalkclub.com page accordingly. Jürgen.
Heartfelt thanks to you, dear Yasemin, as always for the splendid moderation, and Marc for your contributions, and basically again one of the many rooms that have enriched all of us, hopefully all of us, also the audience, with knowledge. Because I think, the knowledge that thinking blocks exist and how to deal with them, is one of the most effective measures, a preventive measure, to prevent thinking blocks and provide for them. So heartfelt thanks again, and I wish you a nice day. Thanks.
Yes, wonderful. And one of my favorite terms, to get into self-efficacy accordingly through that too. And that’s exactly what it’s about, establishing a certain steering and self-efficacy. And so I also hope everyone was able to take something away for themselves, and with one example or another we picked up, maybe go into more depth, and research a bit yourselves too, maybe got curious about exploring something new. And I’m now looking forward first to the room tomorrow, where it’ll be about creative thinking. That’s also an exciting topic, I find. What’s actually behind creative thinking is the question we want to engage with tomorrow. So you’re all really, really warmly invited to join again tomorrow morning at eight too. I’m looking forward to it. Until then. Ciao.
